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Do high-sec carebears really think they have any importance to nul-sec?
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-10-30 00:41:02 UTC
Are you really implying I'm ratting? As in ever? On any char? Ok, guy. Keep us updated on your tears extraction progress.

PS: Don't forget to shoot both my chars. I'm not seeing that you've added my other char yet with an edgily misspelled "******" in the message

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#42 - 2011-10-30 00:42:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Are you really implying I'm ratting? As in ever? On any char? Ok, guy. Keep us updated on your tears extraction progress.

PS: Don't forget to shoot both my chars. I'm not seeing that you've added my other char yet with an edgily misspelled "******" in the message


u mad bro? Cause.. you sound mad.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-10-30 00:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Thredd Necro wrote:

Your thread title is inflammatory and is a challenge, not an invitation to open discourse.


It is only infamitory because I am challenging a scared trope of the dedicated high-sec dweller. IE: that they are somehow critical and important to game play in the rest of EVE. It was a simple statement requesting information. That you found it inflammatory just goes to show how tightly held such beliefs are, even when based on completely false assumptions.





Why do they have to be "important" to play an online video game that provides said Empire content... bro?
Sense... this thread makes none. Bro.


Bro, U mad at Empire dwellers or something, Bro?

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#44 - 2011-10-30 01:01:13 UTC
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Are you really implying I'm ratting? As in ever? On any char? Ok, guy. Keep us updated on your tears extraction progress.

PS: Don't forget to shoot both my chars. I'm not seeing that you've added my other char yet with an edgily misspelled "******" in the message


u mad bro? Cause.. you sound mad.


Reset TEST
ps3ud0nym
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#45 - 2011-10-30 01:25:25 UTC
David Carel wrote:
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Are you really implying I'm ratting? As in ever? On any char? Ok, guy. Keep us updated on your tears extraction progress.

PS: Don't forget to shoot both my chars. I'm not seeing that you've added my other char yet with an edgily misspelled "******" in the message


u mad bro? Cause.. you sound mad.


Reset TEST


C

and kick B0RT!
Venus Vermillion
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2011-10-30 03:58:07 UTC
David Carel wrote:

Reset TEST


I support this agenda.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2011-10-30 04:08:18 UTC
David Carel wrote:
Reset TEST

It's the only way to prevent this kind of bad posting.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-10-30 04:43:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Mora
ps3ud0nym wrote:


The problem I have is that that mechanic, putting ISK into the system without taking an equivalent out, in untenable in the long term without intervention by CCP. You seem to want the same rewards for far far less risk and don't seem to see anything unbalanced in that situation, nor do you see how such a system contributes to inflation. If CCP wants to keep High-sec the same, fine.. massively boost the profitability of 0.0 to compensate for the higher risk as compared to highsec. Use highsec as a base line if you like. If I can make 25M/hr doing lvl 4s in highsec, I should be making 200M/hr in NPC 0.0. You can make 10M/hr mining in High-sec.. fine, make it so you make 100M/hr in nul. Make the rewards comparable to the risk. I don't care how they do it, buff nul or nerf high, but the game needs to be balanced or there is no motivation for players to be in 0.0 or low-sec at all.



You assume that Hisec PVE players actually care about the isk / rewards of Nullsec ...

I can tell you, as a Hisec PvE / WH player ... I care not at all how much isk ppl can make in nullsec (it's already astronomical compared to anything hisec provides so not sure why the nullseccers seem to want to nerf hisec so badly) ... it's simply not the game I want to play ... so please get out of my corner of the sandbox, since you Bullies already own the rest of it ... and if you take away my sand, I'm still not coming to nullsec, I'm just cancelling my subs (all 16 of them) .

There's plenty of space for all of us to share ... and I'd like to see CCP gain some more casual players to help pay for enhancements for the rest of us.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#49 - 2011-11-03 18:33:39 UTC
Oh, look, an arrogant, up-itself piece of null-trash being condescending.

-10/10, at least try to be a little more original, k?

Ni.
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#50 - 2011-11-03 20:09:18 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
ps3udonym wrote:
lots of drivel

The ****? 12k in 6vdt? The **** are you smoking? Whatever it is, stop smoking it, it's clearly warping how you perceive reality.

Actually, what you should do, is stop posting. You're showing a clear and distinct lack of understanding for how hisec works, as well as nullsec. If you really think that nullsec is completely insular to hisec, then boy do I have a bridge to sell you. Actually, come to think of it, you should read malcanis' proposal, and then shut the **** up, because you're a danger to the game.

Literally the one thing I'd like to change with hisec right now is the payouts from incursions, I think those are on the high side. After that I would want low and nullsec to become more profitable to entice people to move out there. What you're talking about is trying to force them out there by semistarving them. There's a lot more to do in hisec than mine and run missions or get ganked, and having a lot of career options, be it in hisec, lowsec or nullsec, is absolutely fine and inline with the concept of a sandbox, and it's something which I'd love to see expanded upon, not restricted.

Also, what the christ is it with the "very high SP character with full researched T2 BPOs and billions in investment" to make a profit on the market? I mean, just ... what?

And the bots not being noticeable in hisec? What?

Seriously. Stop posting.


Damn, beat me to it. Never thought I'd say this to most any Goonie, but +1.

I disagree re-- the OP cutting back on whatever it is they're smoking, though. They should instead be enticed to share, as it's clearly good stuffBear

Ni.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2011-11-03 20:34:47 UTC
Removing the quality of agents wasn't so much a buff, people would work their ways to the high level ones anyway.

But.... it does make a lot more ones useful that were not the quality 20-18, so less hubs where everyone is in one system for the rare best agents.

It added convince, and lowered requirements for getting the best agents, but did not make any of them better.

But the anominaly nerf was a nerf.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2011-11-03 20:48:26 UTC
This is a titan of a debate....

I don't think a correct answer exists to if importing exists or not as the major way of supplying nullsec.

I do it, someone else doesn't do it.

But the lack of desire of people to farm low ends, and ice means that is almost always imported. Add to that 3/4ths of ice can not be found in any one region.

Also... very very bad stations for doing anything (and the hard limit of one, and few that exist in any one region) means that doing industry in null is bad to begin with.

Sure you could just import trite and pyrite, but then again those can be compressed into mods and ships (BC and BS take up less space then the mins that make them) if you take ships or ammo you never need to use station slots that are hard to come by.

But, this thread is becoming a flame war, how about simple ideas to improve things. Something to compensate the anominaly nerf to make lower sec systems worth more (could up the difficulty and ship spawns in all anominalys so havens and hubs are as hard as sanctums used to be, and sanctums require groups/leet ships). And make stations better, tenfold in slots and versatility if they are the only one in each system.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#53 - 2011-11-03 21:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Well, I'll ask you this:

Who buys all those shiny mods and implants you find ratting out there?
Who generates the bulk of the meta 3/4 modules that keep their market prices down?
Who mines obscene amounts of minerals and puts them on the market, keeping goods cheap?

So yes, the carebears do affect us all. Without their influence, the markets would be radically different and less profitable.

edit: The mission changes were for the sake of simplicity and didn't do much to "buff" highsec. It just made it so that the agent system wasn't stupidly and unnecessarily convoluted. CCP did a good job of making the system a lot easier to understand without really changing the way missions were run. The serious mission runners that make all the isk were already at the highest quality agents anyway.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-11-03 21:54:36 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Who mines obscene amounts of minerals and puts them on the market, keeping goods cheap?

Bots.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2011-11-03 23:11:02 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Who mines obscene amounts of minerals and puts them on the market, keeping goods cheap?

Bots.

Now we just need to figure out the best way to replace all the whining pubbies with bots.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-11-05 23:18:10 UTC
ps3ud0nym, You started out just great but now you are losing me. Imma let you finish but real fast lets go back to your first few posts:
1. Null does not need Hi. Agreed more or less. there are exceptions but they are rare and take a bit of work.
2. JF costs are not justified by the gains of Hi-null traffic. Pretty much my experience as well. Once again with a few exceptions. and those not in a volume necessitating JF.
3. HiSec commerce is detrimental to Nul..........
Can you see how 1 & 2 pretty much deny 3? Unless you are referring to the overall inflation in the game which begs the question how that is HiSec's fault? As most Null players have at least one Hi alt they are at least equally culpable. And even if they did not NullSec PvE and mining still pays as well or better than Hi. Don't get me wrong I do agree that nullSec is the bigger game that makes Eve a cut above other MMOs so the dynamic is genuinely interesting. just WTF bro?

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#57 - 2011-11-06 05:28:34 UTC
Dear OP, come on Kugu so I can negrep you and we can discuss how all of NullSec is currently independent of HighSec, let alone Jita.

Sincerely~
Common ******* Sense of Game Mechanics and Jump Freighters
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-11-07 04:04:18 UTC
If null doesn't need highsec, then who cares? What's the problem? Most highsec players wouldn't go to null no matter how profitable it was anyways because they don't *like* the people that are there. NBSI isn't fun to some people. Gatecamps (participating in one, or getting killed at one) isn't fun to some people. While that is nothing like the entire null experience, it is sadly the first thing most highsec dwellers experience when they try null. Seems to me, the problem between highsec and null is the people involved. Making null more profitable is alright by me (mo money!), but it sure as hell won't fix the problem.


Then you also have the tidbit that the majority of eve players live in highsec. So null does rely upon highsec for one thing: Carebear subs keep ccp in business.
Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2011-11-08 09:54:14 UTC
One thing that has always confused me is the people who claim that Eve is a sandbox and yet, in the same breath, will tell you that you're playing the game wrong if you're not playing it their way....

I like Eve because of the risks and the multiple levels of PVP -and you only get that kind of complexity from a game where so many different people are playing differently. Anyone who claims that high sec is a training ground for newbs on their way to null doesn't get this game at all...

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
Xien Anh
Xezan Federation
#60 - 2011-11-08 14:31:25 UTC
It's fun to make stuff go boom.

Only a ginger can call a ginger a ginger!