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Question about loans for buying characters
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Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-29 18:09:04 UTC
How would the MD forum people think about a loan for buying a character? I recently got a second monitor and would like two accounts for running incursions. I'm assuming I would need about 5-6 bil for a decent incursion character, and the isk for the ship would be provided by this character. This is not an actual loan, as I would like to know if anyone would be interested.

There would be no collateral btw.
Antony E Stark
The Tory Party
#2 - 2013-08-29 18:13:11 UTC
I don't think you'll get any takers - unless someone has 6b to effectively write off. Put up some collateral from assets if possible.
Setsune Rin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-08-29 18:55:42 UTC
incredibly large loan to get with no collateral and no reputation or history, you can pretty much forget about that
Belgarath Aloria
The Alorn Alliance
#4 - 2013-08-29 19:26:44 UTC
"I need six billion so I can make my gaming enjoyment better! I offer nothing to secure your investment in my gameplay nor do I offer any sort of incentive for you to invest your money! Also, this isn't a real request, so just ignore it unless you just want to throw me 6B ISKies."

I mean, what do you THINK people are going to say?
Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-08-29 22:08:21 UTC
Belgarath Aloria wrote:
"I need six billion so I can make my gaming enjoyment better! I offer nothing to secure your investment in my gameplay nor do I offer any sort of incentive for you to invest your money! Also, this isn't a real request, so just ignore it unless you just want to throw me 6B ISKies."

I mean, what do you THINK people are going to say?


There would be interest of course, probably around 15%. And collateral on my part wouldn't make sense, as if I had collateral I would just sell it. The whole point is I would essentially make the isk for the character in half the time by getting a loan then paying it off.
Julia Avinte
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-08-30 08:10:53 UTC
I think another problem investors see with funding character acquisitions is that not only do you need to gather the interest payments each month, you will reduce your working capital by the characters cost and you will therefore also have to gather all the money to pay back the loan.

If you instead borrow money to fund a trading enterprise, you will invest it in assets which are fairly easy to liquidate so you can pay back the loan more easily.
Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-08-30 11:16:22 UTC
True, but the only capital needed is the cost of a ship and fitting it T2. With two characters running incursions, I would pull at least 200m an hour up to 360m and hour. This means it would only take me about 30-35 hours of playing to earn the isk, which would be 2 weeks max for me.

Now if you ask why don't I just make the isk myself? Well because it would take me 70 hours of playing to be able to buy the character. If I get a loan I have the character immediately, and am able to start making a profit off of him sooner.
Emily Anasarsy
Reverse Engineering LTD
#8 - 2013-08-30 12:16:30 UTC
Airuta Hita wrote:
Belgarath Aloria wrote:
"I need six billion so I can make my gaming enjoyment better! I offer nothing to secure your investment in my gameplay nor do I offer any sort of incentive for you to invest your money! Also, this isn't a real request, so just ignore it unless you just want to throw me 6B ISKies."

I mean, what do you THINK people are going to say?


There would be interest of course, probably around 15%. And collateral on my part wouldn't make sense, as if I had collateral I would just sell it. The whole point is I would essentially make the isk for the character in half the time by getting a loan then paying it off.


Collateral is usually something you keep that is worth money. Anybody cans ell their junk to make money up. Collateral is meat to be stuff like, Ships, Blueprints and other valuable items you would like back. Hence why you get them back if you pay the loan off.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#9 - 2013-08-30 14:08:09 UTC
Airuta Hita wrote:
Belgarath Aloria wrote:
"I need six billion so I can make my gaming enjoyment better! I offer nothing to secure your investment in my gameplay nor do I offer any sort of incentive for you to invest your money! Also, this isn't a real request, so just ignore it unless you just want to throw me 6B ISKies."

I mean, what do you THINK people are going to say?


There would be interest of course, probably around 15%. And collateral on my part wouldn't make sense, as if I had collateral I would just sell it. The whole point is I would essentially make the isk for the character in half the time by getting a loan then paying it off.

With no collateral, what incentive do you have to pay back the loan?
Think about it this way.
You could be borrowing on this character with no collateral, transferring the isk to an alt, using that alto to buy a character, then starting life anew on your new char. We'd have no way of even finding out who your new character is, so you have the isk and you get to keep a clean rep.
Does that sound like a sensible investment?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
RAW23
#10 - 2013-08-30 14:50:17 UTC
There is no problem at all borrowing isk to buy a character. The big problem is trying to borrow isk with there being absolutely no way for an investor to distinguish you from a mission runner who decides to try to run a zero-effort scam on MD. Think about the total time and effort it would take you to post a loan request. Now think about the complete absence of means by which you as an honest borrower could be distinguished from a scammer. Silly interest rates do not help at all when there is nothing at all to indicate that the borrower does not mean to scam.

Traditionally MD operated a kind of 'ladder' for unsecured loans that acted as a barrier to entry for scammers. No one would be willing to give you 5-6bil straight away. You would either have to put time in on a community level contributing to MD threads or borrow a small amount unsecured (sub 1bil) which could then be returned (ideally) with a performance audit on your activity. Then you might get 2-3bil the next time and 4-6 the time after that, the point being that these systems evolved to prevent anyone trying to pull a scam where they could get 5bil for spending 10 minutes putting a post together. Unfortunately, a lot of this structure and the knowledge holding it up seems to have disappeared over the last year, so you may well get someone stupid enough to invest in this. But this would be a really bad investment, even if you are as pure as the driven snow, because there is no way at all to even begin to gauge your trustworthiness.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-08-30 16:42:57 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
There is no problem at all borrowing isk to buy a character. The big problem is trying to borrow isk with there being absolutely no way for an investor to distinguish you from a mission runner who decides to try to run a zero-effort scam on MD. Think about the total time and effort it would take you to post a loan request. Now think about the complete absence of means by which you as an honest borrower could be distinguished from a scammer. Silly interest rates do not help at all when there is nothing at all to indicate that the borrower does not mean to scam.

Traditionally MD operated a kind of 'ladder' for unsecured loans that acted as a barrier to entry for scammers. No one would be willing to give you 5-6bil straight away. You would either have to put time in on a community level contributing to MD threads or borrow a small amount unsecured (sub 1bil) which could then be returned (ideally) with a performance audit on your activity. Then you might get 2-3bil the next time and 4-6 the time after that, the point being that these systems evolved to prevent anyone trying to pull a scam where they could get 5bil for spending 10 minutes putting a post together. Unfortunately, a lot of this structure and the knowledge holding it up seems to have disappeared over the last year, so you may well get someone stupid enough to invest in this. But this would be a really bad investment, even if you are as pure as the driven snow, because there is no way at all to even begin to gauge your trustworthiness.


Would a full API be any sort of reassurance?
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#12 - 2013-08-30 18:09:30 UTC
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-08-30 18:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
If I give you a loan for trading and the time to pay the loan back comes around then you can easily liquidate part of your trading capital and pay me back. As long as you earned more than the interest you will be able to pay me back in full.

If I give you a loan for buying a mission ship and the time to pay the loan back comes around then you really want to have earned enough through missions to pay me the interest and the principal - but if everything fails you can still sell the mission ship to recover 80-90% of the principal.

If I give you a loan for buying a character and the time to pay the loan back comes around ... let's not kid ourselves - you won't sell the character to pay me back.

.
Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-08-30 18:16:16 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3502065

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=271578

Sounds legit and take my ISK.


I won't acknowledge trolls. Am I'm allowed to want to hear people's stories
Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-08-30 18:17:21 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
If I give you a loan for trading and the time to pay the loan back comes around then you can easily liquidate part of your trading capital and pay me back. As long as you earned more than the interest you will be able to pay me back in full.

If I give you a loan for buying a mission ship and the time to pay the loan back comes around then you really want to have earned enough through missions to pay me the interest and the principal - but if everything fails you can still sell the mission ship to recover 80-90% of the principal.

If I give you a loan for buying a character and the time to pay the loan back comes around ... let's not kid ourselves - you won't sell the character to pay me back.


Of course I wouldn't, that's why the interest would be set to be payed weekly, for as long as needed to make the isk. If it takes 2 weeks, or 2 months. you just get payed more interest the longer it takes me to pay it back.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#16 - 2013-08-30 19:11:57 UTC
Oh cmon guys, this guy is trying to scam here for at least 3 weeks now...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-30 19:17:52 UTC
Airuta Hita wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3502065

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=271578

Sounds legit and take my ISK.


I won't acknowledge trolls. Am I'm allowed to want to hear people's stories

and yet you did exactly that

Bokononist

 
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#18 - 2013-08-31 01:34:30 UTC
Airuta Hita wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3502065

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=271578

Sounds legit and take my ISK.


I won't acknowledge trolls. Am I'm allowed to want to hear people's stories

I think it's relatively safe to say we're done here.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#19 - 2013-08-31 01:35:45 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Traditionally MD operated a kind of 'ladder' for unsecured loans that acted as a barrier to entry for scammers. No one would be willing to give you 5-6bil straight away.


Wasn't the problem with this essentially that it didn't act as such a barrier? They'd simply run off with one of the rungs.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Airuta Hita
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-08-31 03:13:02 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Oh cmon guys, this guy is trying to scam here for at least 3 weeks now...


Why do you think asking for loans is trying to scam?
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