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Talos: 90% webs at every gate?
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Aamrr
#1 - 2011-10-29 08:00:44 UTC
Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.

The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.

One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.

Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls.
Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-10-29 08:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Comy 1
14.2km web range with a loki booster using a t2 web, even without heat. Atleast regional gates will make you spawn far away enough.

I totally agree with OP, gonna be interresting to see the remote sensor boosted Talos sitting in every camp :)
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-29 08:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Navigator
Ain't none of you ever making it back to the gate again.

Profanity removed. Navigator.
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
Primary Sector
#4 - 2011-10-29 08:25:36 UTC
where are you seeing the bonuses for the new ships?
ive been keeping an eye for them and cant find bonuses or stats
Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-10-29 08:27:11 UTC
Lojak 2501 wrote:
where are you seeing the bonuses for the new ships?
ive been keeping an eye for them and cant find bonuses or stats


It's nothing official, but people have datamined the cache files from a test build. Even if the bonuses are not final, I would say they are atleast likely to happen.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#6 - 2011-10-29 08:31:36 UTC
Lojak 2501 wrote:
where are you seeing the bonuses for the new ships?
ive been keeping an eye for them and cant find bonuses or stats


This is a dump that was extracted from SiSi. None of the things you see are in concrete and are subject to change... but what's there is quite interesting.

How did you Veterans start?
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#7 - 2011-10-29 08:31:40 UTC
The rate at which you slow down is still driven by the mass and agility of the hull you're flying... and it's not like we haven't had 90% webs for more of EVE's history than not.

People will still get through.
Lojak 2501
Unitum Investigationis et Progressus
Primary Sector
#8 - 2011-10-29 08:53:07 UTC
intresting new stuff indeed

the tornado layout seems to be right up my ally

but then so does the naga
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-29 08:59:41 UTC
A use for a Gallente ship!?
THIS WON'T STAND!
Ravans
The Federal Ministry of Finance Nigeria
#10 - 2011-10-29 09:48:07 UTC
CCP has said the Talos will be a baby vindicator. go figure ;)
Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2011-10-29 10:19:49 UTC
Ravans wrote:
CCP has said the Talos will be a baby vindicator. go figure ;)



Yeah minus 200,000 eHP or so.

Oh well, going to have to lock it up and hope you get lucky.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2011-10-29 10:24:34 UTC
Gee, how will we cope? I mean, it's not as though we've had 90% webs everywhere in the past...

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
Alara IonStorm
#13 - 2011-10-29 10:43:52 UTC
My God it is like having a ship with 2 Webs fit in the mids...

But there is only one Web fitted.
Onictus
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2011-10-29 10:44:48 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
My God it is like having a ship with 2 Webs fit in the mids...

But there is only one Web fitted.



An blasters that go further than 10km Twisted
Aamrr
#15 - 2011-10-29 10:49:28 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
My God it is like having a ship with 2 Webs fit in the mids...

But there is only one Web fitted.


Actually, a pair of 60% webs will only reduce you to about 19.1% of your original speed. You'll be going about twice as fast as what a Talos's web will allow.
Alara IonStorm
#16 - 2011-10-29 10:57:53 UTC
Aamrr wrote:

Actually, a pair of 60% webs will only reduce you to about 19.1% of your original speed. You'll be going about twice as fast as what a Talos's web will allow.

I know like who totally can't make it 15km back to the gate with 80% Webs, Scrammed in a Gatecamp.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#17 - 2011-10-29 11:32:39 UTC
It's hard to say how this will play out. You do have to consider the tank (or lack there of) on the talos. I've used ashimmu's as dedicated tackle on gates and it absolutely shuts targets down, they never get away like that. But the ashimmu has a pretty stiff tank, especially for a cruiser hull. You can do basically the same thing with the long range scrams of an arazu/lachesis + a normal web. Both ships maybe solidly in the 150-200M isk range but the truth is, that's pocket change by todays standards. And yet most people still don't camp with those.

The reason is simple, it requires a well organized camp as those are specialized ships for tackling. Buying one of those ships is investing an entire hull into just being the dedicated tackler for a gate camp. Most camps are merely a few bored players in whatever they have available at that particular instant. So the real question is, will the talos be popular overall. If so (and assuming it can take a few punches), it will be a common gatecamp ship and if not, then it won't.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-10-29 11:42:07 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.

The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.

One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.

Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls.



I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km +

I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve

I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed

Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains.

Wow, isn't this cute...

Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up.

Alpha? -Amarr Minmatar
Skirmish? -Amarr Minmatar
Med engagements? : Minmatar Amarr Drakes
Undock games? -wtfpown pilgrims curses rapiers munnins zealots vagas cynabals dramiels DD's and I'll stop here
Logistics? - Scimitars Guardians, sometimes (really rare) Basilisk

So gallente gets one ship, with one bonus needed if you don't want blasters to get your pulse optimal and autos tracking, and you find ways to whine...
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-10-29 11:47:25 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Ravans wrote:
CCP has said the Talos will be a baby vindicator. go figure ;)



Yeah minus 200,000 eHP or so.

Oh well, going to have to lock it up and hope you get lucky.



My slaved Vindi no boosters or other armor implants, no fleet or double titan bonus, has "just" 465K ehp.

[make whiners rage:ON]

If the Talos could gets 200 I'd happy Lol

[make whiners rage: OFF]
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-29 11:49:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Tanya Powers wrote:
Aamrr wrote:
Much has been made about the Tornado and its potential for suicide ganking, but I think the forums have so far missed a bigger issue in the tier-3 battlecruiser designs.

The Talos offers a 90% web on a dirt cheap hull. Every gate camp will now have one.

One of the common strategies for a gatecamp is burning back to gate and going back the way you came. With an overheated MWD and a bit of momentum, you can often manage to make it back in a decently agile hull. With 90% webs on the field, this changes.

Previously, 90% webs were reserved for nine ships. All of them cost at least 100 million isk and none were insurable in the slightest. The cheapest two were frigates, and therefore difficult to keep alive under lowsec sentry fire. A well-equipped gatecamp might well be expected to have one, but they were the exception rather than the rule.

Is this a good change for the gatecamping ecosystem? I don't know. But it's certainly a significant change from a universe where 90% webs were the exclusive purview of T2 and faction hulls.



I don't see you whiners about the Talos come up and say it's silly the shortest range weapons system is screwed with overpowered scorch pulses shooting nuclear dmg at 65km +

I don't see you whiners bothered because you have overall the best line up ships in eve

I don't see you whiners, at least once, admit gallente ships/guns are completely screwed

Now the Talos, if, he gets some web bonus are making you whine because you have to use tactics and brains.

Wow, isn't this cute...

Now let me get this straight: I for once will maybe start flying Gallente since I'm flying now Minmatar because I don't have the choice if I want to fleet up.

Alpha? -Amarr Minmatar
Skirmish? -Amarr Minmatar
Med engagements? : Minmatar Amarr Drakes
Undock games? -wtfpown pilgrims curses rapiers munnins zealots vagas cynabals dramiels DD's and I'll stop here
Logistics? - Scimitars Guardians, sometimes (really rare) Basilisk

So gallente gets one ship, with one bonus needed if you don't want blasters to get your pulse optimal and autos tracking, and you find ways to whine...



in all honesty, the web str bonus is interesting, and I can't think of another 2nd bonus to the talos, besides speed or agility one.


admittedly however, like the proposed falloff bonus on the tornado, it does pigeonhole the ships into a specific role, something that is usually relegated to the T2 (the "specialist" class) ships. T1 ships are, usually, supposed to be flexible, capable of achieving more than one role.




THEN AGAIN, the stats aren't final, and in all honesty I'm having quite some laughs at people screaming "MURDER DEATH KILL!" after looking at the typeID crystal ball.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
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