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Freedom for Freighters

Author
Vanessa Vasquez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-29 12:28:52 UTC
Fitting of ships is a big part of eve's sandbox. It makes the game very versatile. How come freighters and JF don't have any fitting slots? You spend billions of ISK and months of skilling time and you can't even fit a single module? Nonsense if you ask me.

Suggestion:

Every race has it's bonus, so should it be with the freigthers as well.

Charon: sturdy shield tank: 2 mid, 1 low. reduced base cargo capacity, enhanced shield HP
Obelisk: Dronebay 100m² 75m² bandwidth. 1mid, 2 low. reduced cargo capacity, possibilty to defend himself against tacklers
Fenrir: speedy boat: 4 low. reduced cargo capacity
Providence: huge hauler, 2 low slots.

Basic idea is to stay @ approx. the same cargo capacity freighters actually have. F.e. Fenrir would need to fit 4 expanded cargoholds to come to it's actuall cargo capacity, but would have the opportunity to fit nano's or tank.

Buy a charon if you want more safety vs high sec ganks, buy a obelisk if you want to get on KMs if you get ganked or need to jump into hostile space, providence for the extra cargo capacity or fenrir for speedy hauling of smaler loads.

I don't see any reason why not tbh.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-08-29 12:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
DCU II for Jump freighters?

•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

EDIT: ppl would waste that slot for a cargo expander anyways...

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#3 - 2013-08-29 12:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Freighters are meant to travel with an escort if they wish to avoid ganking and camps etc. An RL example is the Atlantic Convoys in WWII.

Freighters carry shedloads of stuff and a few modules are not going to help much...Freighters + Escort\Protection is how they're supposed to be flown not like any other ship in EVE and I appreciate the SP required but to give them that much m3 AND modules would just be OP.

Jump Freighters are landing on a Cyno so the same protection should be afforded to them as a Freighter and not a "throw-away" alt lighting up for it to jump to. Value the ship\cargo within = fly it with protection.

I guess you can gather that it's a no from me and no, I'm not a ganker or a Freighter Pilot but if you want modules AND Cargo capacity look at an Orca.

EDIT: Not the first time it's been suggested either so please use the search button to see if you idea is truly unique in that: Never before been suggested or has not been suggested in an active thread.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#4 - 2013-08-29 13:27:15 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Freighters are meant to travel with an escort if they wish to avoid ganking and camps etc. An RL example is the Atlantic Convoys in WWII.[snipped].


This. Just because people chose to fly them without an escort doesn't mean that that is how they should be flown. It's like cap ships in as much as neither are they supposed to be flown solo. Some people chose to and some people manage to get away with it but those that fly with a sub cap escort tend to be significantly safer.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-08-29 13:45:51 UTC
I'd give them 1-2 low slots.

Cargo expander - more cargo space
Inertial stab - faster travel when active piloting
Nanofiber - faster AFK travel (combined with hull HP penalty, just asking for a gank)
OD injector - faster AFK travel (asking to get ganked slightly less this way)
DCII - harder to gank
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#6 - 2013-08-29 14:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I'd give them 1-2 low slots.

Cargo expander - more cargo space
Inertial stab - faster travel when active piloting
Nanofiber - faster AFK travel (combined with hull HP penalty, just asking for a gank)
OD injector - faster AFK travel (asking to get ganked slightly less this way)
DCII - harder to gank


Go away freighters are already plenty hard to gank a DCU would make them neigh impossible to gank.
its /0.4 multiplier. that's 150% more ehp on hull meaning 400k ehp
I'm only ok with this if we first nerf ehp to 50k first.

Stupid carebears that want to be safe.
No ship with large cargo should be impossible to gank.
The concord spawn on fully tanked JF with DCU and bulks would probably drop the node.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2013-08-29 15:09:35 UTC
Why would you seek to nerf freighters? Sorry, but it's a no from me.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-08-29 15:14:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Slots are fine if some changes will be made to freighters:

Med slots:
- reduced shield hitpoints
- reduced speed

Low slots:
- reduced cargo capacity
- reduced armor and hull hitpoints
- reduced agility
Vanessa Vasquez
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-08-29 18:40:19 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Slots are fine if some changes will be made to freighters:

Med slots:
- reduced shield hitpoints
- reduced speed

Low slots:
- reduced cargo capacity
- reduced armor and hull hitpoints
- reduced agility


something like that. its not a buf or nerf for freigthers, its just to have options to fit them for different purposes.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-08-29 19:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Vanessa Vasquez wrote:
something like that. its not a buf or nerf for freigthers, its just to have options to fit them for different purposes.


Actually it's nerf to freighters.

With only two low slots you will lose speed (yes, I forgot about overdrives Oops), cargo capacity, agility and most importantly tank. You can't gain all that back with just two modules.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#11 - 2013-08-29 20:34:19 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Vanessa Vasquez wrote:
something like that. its not a buf or nerf for freigthers, its just to have options to fit them for different purposes.


Actually it's nerf to freighters.

With only two low slots you will lose speed (yes, I forgot about overdrives Oops), cargo capacity, agility and most importantly tank. You can't gain all that back with just two modules.



This^ CCP would feel compelled to nerf all the tanks to freighters if they added regular slots.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-29 20:50:31 UTC
Freighters could fit packaged carriers and dreadnoughts if they were allowed to fit cargohold expanders.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#13 - 2013-08-30 01:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arya Regnar
ArcticPrism wrote:
Freighters could fit packaged carriers and dreadnoughts if they were allowed to fit cargohold expanders.

And orcas! But yeah... Freighters would be very annoying to balance if they had slots.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.

Meyr
Pirannha Corp
#14 - 2013-08-30 06:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Meyr
Wow, do you gankers cry a lot.

There has been an awful lot of people in the Industrial rebalance thread commenting that ships can be fit with more tank in return for less cargo. Why not let Freighter pilots make that same choice?

You already have Teir 3 BC's, stupidly high DPS from Catalysts, Tags For Sec Status, Industrials (the max cargo ones, meaning every Iteron V currently flying) being made easier to gank by a Dev who doesn't know a damned thing about hauling, faction navies & Concord who allow you to fly through hisec with -10 sec status without podding you, cargo & ship scanners to make sure that your target has enough loot to pay for your gank, attacking other players from a noob corp so you don't have to worry about te haulers/industrialists you prey upon actually doing something to retaliate against you in return for you blowing up their ships & stealing their cargo, and now you're whining about the possibility of a DC II-fit freighter?

How about you grow a pair, throw down the heavier firepower needed to gank what will probably be a more valuable cargo (which, thanks to scanners, you'll already know in advance) and accept some real RISK to go along with your reward.

HTFU, YOU PANSIES! Stop whining and crying that "you don't want your fun ruined", my God, you gankers love to brag about 'harvesting tears', but, as soon as someone proposes making YOUR fun a little more challenging, you cry loudest of all.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-08-30 07:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Meyr wrote:
There has been an awful lot of people in the Industrial rebalance thread commenting that ships can be fit with more tank in return for less cargo. Why not let Freighter pilots make that same choice?


Do you know what you're asking?

For example:
Freighter with two low slots

- Your tank should be nerfed to point when only bulkheads and damage control will increase your tank to current level

That's not the only nerf!
- Your cargohold size should be nerfed to point when only two expanded cargohold modules will increase your cargohold size to current level

We are not done with nerfs yet!
- You also get even worse agility (like it's not bad enough already!) for your freighter so that only two inertia stabilizers will increase your ship's agility to current level.

If freighters need something they need buffs. Not awful nerfs!
Horus V
The Destined
#16 - 2013-08-30 16:30:42 UTC
Every freighter should have 1 low slot. Thats enough for anything really: speed, tank, cargo ect.

V

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#17 - 2013-09-13 14:27:50 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Freighters are meant to travel with an escort if they wish to avoid ganking and camps etc. An RL example is the Atlantic Convoys in WWII.

Freighters carry shedloads of stuff and a few modules are not going to help much...Freighters + Escort\Protection is how they're supposed to be flown not like any other ship in EVE and I appreciate the SP required but to give them that much m3 AND modules would just be OP.

Jump Freighters are landing on a Cyno so the same protection should be afforded to them as a Freighter and not a "throw-away" alt lighting up for it to jump to. Value the ship\cargo within = fly it with protection.

I guess you can gather that it's a no from me and no, I'm not a ganker or a Freighter Pilot but if you want modules AND Cargo capacity look at an Orca.

EDIT: Not the first time it's been suggested either so please use the search button to see if you idea is truly unique in that: Never before been suggested or has not been suggested in an active thread.

You realise that if someone wants to gank a freighter, they can do so regardless of how many escorts it has. Since the escorts can't agress until the gankers have, the freighter has to be able to survive at least 1 full volley, then as many partial volleys as it takes for though group to be dispersed. In your real life example, the escorts would be able to engage if someone came to close. A fleet of 50 ships coming towards them would be purged with extreme prejudice.

Freighters are a pretty dumb mechanic. Back before ganking was such an easy thing to do, they worked, but now it's at the point where you can kill a freighter with only a couple of hundred mil spent on ships. This basically makes a freighters enormous size pointless, since you can only carry cheap loads.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#18 - 2013-09-13 14:44:11 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Freighters are meant to travel with an escort if they wish to avoid ganking and camps etc. An RL example is the Atlantic Convoys in WWII.

Freighters carry shedloads of stuff and a few modules are not going to help much...Freighters + Escort\Protection is how they're supposed to be flown not like any other ship in EVE and I appreciate the SP required but to give them that much m3 AND modules would just be OP.

Jump Freighters are landing on a Cyno so the same protection should be afforded to them as a Freighter and not a "throw-away" alt lighting up for it to jump to. Value the ship\cargo within = fly it with protection.

I guess you can gather that it's a no from me and no, I'm not a ganker or a Freighter Pilot but if you want modules AND Cargo capacity look at an Orca.

EDIT: Not the first time it's been suggested either so please use the search button to see if you idea is truly unique in that: Never before been suggested or has not been suggested in an active thread.

You realise that if someone wants to gank a freighter, they can do so regardless of how many escorts it has. Since the escorts can't agress until the gankers have, the freighter has to be able to survive at least 1 full volley, then as many partial volleys as it takes for though group to be dispersed. In your real life example, the escorts would be able to engage if someone came to close. A fleet of 50 ships coming towards them would be purged with extreme prejudice.

Freighters are a pretty dumb mechanic. Back before ganking was such an easy thing to do, they worked, but now it's at the point where you can kill a freighter with only a couple of hundred mil spent on ships. This basically makes a freighters enormous size pointless, since you can only carry cheap loads.


I'm glad you found this thread.

I'll give you that the "can't fire until fired upon" does negate the example somewhat but you'd need an Alpha of >150,000HP (roughly estimated from EVElopedia on a Fenrir of base structure and armour combined) now I don't know the size of gang required of the top of my head but that's a lot of ships piling in that DPS. Remote Reps & Escorts would be able to repair and engage after the first volley has been fired along with Concord (if traveling in Hi-Sec) and Gate Guns.

now some will say "why should I have to have an escort" and my answer would be don't...but don't expect to keep a ship that big for very long. Can't afford to lose it then don't fly it and if you have no module slots then fly smart...fly with an escort or grab an Orca.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#19 - 2013-09-13 15:19:55 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
I'm glad you found this thread.

I'll give you that the "can't fire until fired upon" does negate the example somewhat but you'd need an Alpha of >150,000HP (roughly estimated from EVElopedia on a Fenrir of base structure and armour combined) now I don't know the size of gang required of the top of my head but that's a lot of ships piling in that DPS. Remote Reps & Escorts would be able to repair and engage after the first volley has been fired along with Concord (if traveling in Hi-Sec) and Gate Guns.

You'd think they should be able to do something... But when you think in a 0.5, theres a 25 second delay on concord. 40 T1 catalysts (not even T2) roll out 360DPS. So in a 0.5, they can deliver 360,000 damage and put the freighter in hull on the first volley. Even if you killed 1 per second, they would still deliver 252,000 damage in the 25 seconds. That's T1. That's 80m of ships. T2, you double the DPS and can halve the ships (though a T2 is 5* the price of a T1) but still that's 20x10 = 200m for the same damage (though contested a T2 would only end on 151200 damage, so you'd want to take 25 T2s as you lose a bigger % dps for each ship dropped).

There's no way you'd rep a freighter through a gank with that much DPS. Pretty much the only way to keep a freighter alive is by carrying a light load which gankers may ignore hoping for a bigger drop. Kinda defeats the purpose of a freighter.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
#20 - 2013-09-13 15:36:16 UTC
50 ships declared above is more than enough, even overkill. Freighters are usually destroyed with one volley, as far as I've seen. In this case escort won't help much, and even gang links are almost useless since most hp is in structure(they can probably bring armor up to the same level, though).
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