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Why pay rent to live in Null Sec.

Author
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#141 - 2013-08-30 00:17:07 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
Its all business. Do you think players rent 0.0 space for fun? No, they pay fee while knowing perfectly well that they will profit from that sector. I dont see any bad things about this because EVE is suppose to give players freedom to do stuff and renting is just one way. Just dont come cry on forums about cloaked ship in your rented space and all is fine. Bear

Liked this post. Quoted it. This is pretty much it.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-08-30 00:18:06 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
S'Way wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Best of luck finding people that won't go monkey **** at 25% tax and no active leadership.

You'd be surprised just how many are willing to join at 20% with no CTA's or any "must attend" corp ops. If you want to set it to 25% just be willing to carrier jump stuff they need once a week.
There's a huge number of high-sec people who want to try 0.0 without any forced corp ops / cta's. The no active leadership isn't an issue as long as your recruitment policy catches potential awoxers (full api / proper checks etc needed). Most of them just want to rat or mine in peace.

Yeah, but most of them also want a tiny amount of structure. Not to mention that anyone mining doesn't pay tax so will be seen as non-contributing. If this was a readily doable plan, ther entire rental space would be filled with alt corps. But it's not.
Having been in a corp that rented, it's just not as simple as "dump them in a corp, come back and harvest isk". They are players, not crops.

Miners will only be seen as unpersons if you treat them as unpersons. If you do not want the miners to be treated as unpersons and seen as such, then might I suggest not treating them as unpersons or viewing them as such?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#143 - 2013-08-30 00:18:59 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Skydell wrote:
I'd rather Iteron mine in 1.0 sec myself.

Groveling at the feet of an Overlord for "fun"? No, don't see it happening.

Renting is nothing like that. This clearly shows you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
When you rent space, you pay your rent, which is essentially like tax but you pay in a single hit. After that, you do whatever you want. You don't have to go on ops, you don't have to defend your space. You simply rat or mine or roam or whatever you want.
If anything, Renters have less of an "overlord" structure than a regular corp in an alliance. A regular corp pays tax, has to go on OPs and has too defend their space.


If it only it was really like that.

I have had experience with Renters who were complete dicks, wouldn't lift a finger to help, had more rules then most countries have laws and were very restrictive on what you could and could not do.

Other Renters basically couldn't give a damn, its your space, you do what you want.

Each Renter Alliance is different.

I know the Goons have now become renters hence the charm offensive but jesus don't over do it :)

The worst thing about dishonest people is what they think of as honesty.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-08-30 00:20:35 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Well across my characters I've been in 3 renter alliances. All of them had the same core features:
- No CTAs
- Wartime defense of the space (roams are your own problem, not theirs)
- Only low/no income moons available
- Some JBs available
- Limited Intel Channels

Anything beyond that is up to your corp to arrange. They don't provide logistics or roam defense, but at the same time they don't make demands of you. Sure the rules may differ from alliance to alliance, but an overlord structure would insinuate that the alliance will make you do their bidding, which just isn't the case in renting. I stick by my stance that a renting corp gets treated less like a peon than a member corp of most alliances.

This is pretty much what the GSF rental program is, with the minor addendum that GSF and our allies tend to be bloodthirsty savages when not kept on our leashes, and so we are eager to form up a roaming gang to deal with enemies roaming in our space. I would imagine that the same will hold true for enemies roaming in our renter space.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-08-30 00:23:14 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
You are describing the hardship of operating in null without the backing of a large coalition. You are arguing that circumventing that hardship by paying someone else allows you to be "free" and to "play the game" the way you want. But, the hardship that you guys are describing IS "the game" of EVE Online . . . isn't it? And if it is, and if you are avoiding it, then what are you paying for? If it isn't, then what IS the game?

I personally agree with you, and what you describe as "the game," the fighting of wars and the feeling of accomplishment I get from participating in group endeavours, is what I find enjoyable about EVE Online. But not all people have the same preferences. A great many players, for whatever reason, just want to see the numbers in their wallets get incrementally larger. And while many folks who are exclusively PVP-oriented in their preferences might call those people bad names, there is nothing inherently or objectively wrong with whatever someone does to enjoy the game. If their Progress Bars Online is how they enjoy the game, and they're willing to rent space to make it go faster, then who am I to judge? Let them have their fun.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-08-30 00:23:56 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Get yourself a nullified T3 or learn to use a a scanning scout and wormholes to bypass camped systems. Leave the annoms to the scrubs and blitz null or low DEDS and get guaranteed faction. No rent needed for that.

This is also a valid game play preference. Amazingly there are no right or wrong ways to play.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-08-30 00:25:34 UTC
Robbin Sund wrote:
Seems like people here would rent a house, move in and complain its moldy and the rent is higher then expected and cry when no-one come to get the trash.

Read the contract first, scout out the apartment, check out badspots, if you dont like it dont rent it, or talk down the price.
If you dont want to defend it, ask for them to defend it for you, they dont agree? dont accept it!
Jikes.

It honestly baffles me why people who don't like a particular thing are offended by the prospect of someone else liking it.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#148 - 2013-08-30 00:27:07 UTC
S'Way wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

Yeah, but most of them also want a tiny amount of structure. Not to mention that anyone mining doesn't pay tax so will be seen as non-contributing. If this was a readily doable plan, ther entire rental space would be filled with alt corps. But it's not.
Having been in a corp that rented, it's just not as simple as "dump them in a corp, come back and harvest isk". They are players, not crops.

For the majority just knowing the CEO logs on once a day to sort any issues out (even if only for 5-10 mins) is enough.
While true miners don't pay tax, if you recruit them - recruit the ones that don't have the ability to compress / get what they've mined to a place to sell easily without help - that's when you can charge a small percentage for doing that (ok it takes a couple of decent skilled alts to do, but it's very viable). The other option is buy the ore from them at a discounted rate (most are happy to take a bit less than market value if they dont have to haul).
But usually you only recruit ratters who also have alts that might mine a bit, not 100% miners, so that's not usually a concern.

It can be done (I've had such an alt corp running before for well over 6 months until I got bored), it's worth the investment and when you have a couple of decent skilled alts doing nothing you can use for the odd pos + corp admin / compress and hauling every few days then it works very well.

Lucas Kell wrote:
They are players, not crops.

Welcome to EvE a sandbox game of social engineering at it finest.
Other players are just utilities to provide you with what you want. For some people that means having someone to fly with, for others someone to shoot at. Yet there are people in the game who get their fun by simply shooting at red X's all day - if you can provide them with a service that lets them do that and profit from it - why not.

EVE Online is possibly the best sociopathy simulator I have ever encountered.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#149 - 2013-08-30 00:28:37 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

You pay rent to do what you could almost do in solo and for free?
I don't pay rent... the Corp does.

I actually pay more in taxes (percentage wise) with my mission runner in a Highsec Corp than I do in my null renter Corp. Corp costs are higher in null, but my cost are lower while my profits are higher. Financially this is a good deal.

I am able to rat in a true -1.0 system which is something I can not do solo or free.

I can run anoms in very nice systems.


Solo... isn't what i am looking for.




Solo is a nice guy who keeps the servers running so that I can never stop posting.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-08-30 00:29:22 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
The rise in numbers of "systems for rent" across null may help bring the price of same renting systems down. This "renting" thing may bring a lot of people into nulll sec again. Which is not a bad thing. This could even help some of the renters become systems owners themselves.

It will also fuel the desire among many parties for "good fights," "small gangs," and ~wulfpax~.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#151 - 2013-08-30 00:32:03 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:

Why....
More ISK, more opportunity, and more freedom.


More... unchecked botting for the RMT farm?


It is fascinating to read all the people who were "nerf high sec in the name of risk vs return", are all now claiming "come to null sec and partake in the fountain of riches".

Guess they know their job is done and high sec income potential is soon to be hammered into the ground.

Do you see a problem with risky behaviour being more rewarding?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#152 - 2013-08-30 00:33:11 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


It is fascinating to read all the people who were "nerf high sec in the name of risk vs return", are all now claiming "come to null sec and partake in the fountain of riches".

Guess they know their job is done and high sec income potential is soon to be hammered into the ground.
What? I don't recall saying anything about nerf highsec. Do you have me confused with someone else.



Note: I don't want anyone to come to Null. I don't want my Neighborhood too crowded. Blink

He is using you as a proxy for arguments made by imaginary people in his head. He is too far gone even to invoke a proper strawman argument, and so much settle for pretending that you're one of his strawmen.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#153 - 2013-08-30 00:33:31 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
The rise in numbers of "systems for rent" across null may help bring the price of same renting systems down. This "renting" thing may bring a lot of people into nulll sec again. Which is not a bad thing. This could even help some of the renters become systems owners themselves.

It will also fuel the desire among many parties for "good fights," "small gangs," and ~wulfpax~.

TEST Alliance is back?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-08-30 00:38:20 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

When individual players in the game measure their wealth by the trillions, and their monthly personal income by the hundreds of billions, you really have to wonder what they do with that money. At least, some wonder. The obvious answer is the one that shall not be named.

Speaking as someone whose personal income is measured merely in the tens of billions, a good chunk of my income goes to PLEX for each of the mining accounts I use. I wish I had the patience for market spreadsheets and importing things, but I don't. But if I did, then I know there is a huge potential for me to invest my liquid capital into importing and making even more money. Many people do this, and that is what they do with most of their money—they keep it tied up in assets.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-08-30 00:38:43 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:

Why....
More ISK, more opportunity, and more freedom.


More... unchecked botting for the RMT farm?


We're talking about null sec, not the Forge (where most botting occurs).

Didn't they ban market bots at one point?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#156 - 2013-08-30 00:39:21 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
The rise in numbers of "systems for rent" across null may help bring the price of same renting systems down. This "renting" thing may bring a lot of people into nulll sec again. Which is not a bad thing. This could even help some of the renters become systems owners themselves.

It will also fuel the desire among many parties for "good fights," "small gangs," and ~wulfpax~.

TEST Alliance is back?

We should rent them part of Fountain. Maybe not the whole region, but I think 15% is fair.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#157 - 2013-08-30 00:39:58 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But missions don't run out, do they? Unlike rocks I guess.

Rocks only run out in Empire.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#158 - 2013-08-30 00:40:31 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
No, join ncdot, that way your isk will go towards destroying gsf

Please do this and please engineer an invasion. I need a good war to keep me interested in EVE Online.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-08-30 00:42:42 UTC
Anuminas Alland wrote:
K, I'm sold, here's 10 groats. Can you guys JF all my stuff out? I'll contract all the corp goods over to you. I totes trust all of you now.




If you find a goon trying to rental scam, then please keep logs and screenshots. Send them to me via evemail.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-08-30 00:43:28 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:
"Why reward those who control Null Sec..."


This is both your answer and where you fall from understanding.

Think of it this way:
Why pay rent for a house you don't own?


Someone, other than the renter, took the initiative and spent an enormous amount of time and resources to secure that space, So you could come just come by and make isk.

If you want it for free, come and take it.

But then it's not free. Are you saying that the only way to have access to the space is to pay for it?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn