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Why pay rent to live in Null Sec.

Author
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#101 - 2013-08-29 20:20:36 UTC
i rent in rl too , tought it was normal in a game too , srry

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#102 - 2013-08-29 21:17:22 UTC
CCP has said they do not really like passive income, like moon mining. They seem to be planning on making it go away. For example: moon mining gets replaced with ring mining from ships. The idea is you can be strong (mostly PvP oriented players who hate "grinding for ISK") or rich (mostly players who enjoy PvE and industry play styles). Passive income lets you be both.

Well, it appears null sec alliances are gravitating to another source of passive income: Rent. Even if CCP removes moon mining, the landlords will just adjust the rent rate to reflect the system value. For example if you got a R64 ring to mine, your rent is increased by 16 bil a month (Or some such).

As rent is not a game mechanic, but an emergent player behavior, CCP cannot remove this form of passive income from the game. A large null alliance can continue to be both rich and strong.

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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-08-29 21:32:04 UTC
Lugalbandak wrote:
i rent in rl too , tought it was normal in a game too , srry


There's no need to apologize. There's nothing unreasonable about paying some of your space money as rent for a cool place to fly your spaceship around and do cool stuff. The truth is that we are all transients. Some of us are just not comfortable with this. I don't know if being comfortable with it means you are more enlightened, less enlightened, or just different.

Fly safe.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#104 - 2013-08-29 21:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
The only problem I have with renting is that it has no equivalent... damn how do I put this... in a feudal system, land is traded in exchange for military service. Our (lowsec) alliance sort of models after this system. Blues remain blue if they help us out on larger ops at times (think EHP grinding), and offers an easy stepping stone to get into the intel channels and alliance itself. Offering intel is another way to get good status. Point I want to make: these people do not directly funnel ISK into a wallet but supply the alliance with cheaper ships, fill our fleets, trade with our indies, and so on.

Renting is boring. A dynamic feudal system is not. That's probably the gist of my reason not to rent 0.0, and why I've dug a pit elsewhere. That might change if conditions do. I use 'our' system the way I want, why should a nulsec alliance be prevented from using theirs as they see fit? You get to keep what you can hold, but there are multiple ways to 'hold'. Some ways involve fleets, some ways involve ISK, and even more devious ways involve mere words.

I say to each his own, haters gonna hate. As long as we can still crap in each others sandbox the game still works as intended.Pirate
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-08-29 21:54:06 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
The renting of controlled Null Sec space, is a valid game mechanic, sure, and fair enough, but why pay rent to live there?

Are the riches of Null Sec so rewarding that people are willing to rent the right to live there?

Why reward those who control Null Sec with even more wealth that actually You have earned?

Why provide the Power Blocs with the opportunity to be able to pay for their subsriptions with Your ISK?

Hey, its only a game. You are bound to find other ways to enjoy Eve.

Why waste your ISK so as to have fun.

Don't allow the Power Blocs to brag, "Look at how much space we have". Make them earn the right to be able to say, "Look at how much space we can controll".

Move out of controlled Null Sec, and DON'T pay rent.

To clarify, this is an anti-renting thread.

Deka.

The cost of renting space is spread out among the members of the corporation. Especially for corps that want to specialize in industry, this is a pittance compared to their potential profit because you can pack a functionally infinite number of miners into a single system without running into problems with competition. There are even some individual people who rent systems for their own multibox mining armies, so that they have uncontested rights to all of the ore in the system. There is a great amount of wealth in null sec that most people overlook, due to the mechanics involved in resource depletion in high sec. If you are a single person with 38 mining accounts, or a member of a 50-man corp that wants to mine and rat without paying taxes on the total amount of pirate bounties for the month, then a few billion a month paid as an upfront fee is a drop in the bucket and less than the price of refinery taxes and npc corp taxes. Given the higher bounties available in nullsec and the fact that it is all delivered instantly in ISK rather than partially in LP, the PVE rewards in nullsec quickly overcome those in high sec for the same amount of expended effort.

If you could exploit all of these resources without a sovereignty infrastructure, or if you could build the required sovereignty infrastructure to do it on this scale by yourself, then there would be no need to rent. But you cannot, and so your options as an entity that cannot take space and build a sovereignty infrastructure are to just do without these riches or to rent for acces to them. Renting is a much lower-effort option, and its real costs are considerably less than those that would be required to fully invest oneself in the taking and holding of space.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#106 - 2013-08-29 22:46:49 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
If you could exploit all of these resources without a sovereignty infrastructure, or if you could build the required sovereignty infrastructure to do it on this scale by yourself, then there would be no need to rent. But you cannot, and so your options as an entity that cannot take space and build a sovereignty infrastructure are to just do without these riches or to rent for acces to them. Renting is a much lower-effort option, and its real costs are considerably less than those that would be required to fully invest oneself in the taking and holding of space.

Deny yourself, deny goons.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-08-29 23:05:29 UTC
Enduros wrote:
Andski wrote:
Enduros wrote:
half of those 135 are GSF alts


"18/135 = 0.5" -- you, 2013

According to dotlan only 1 corp is more then 2 weeks old. Also accepting tinfoils hats contracted to me in stations I have no access to.


so for some reason you think we would create shill corps that don't pay rent, recruit a bunch of people into those corps to use our space rent and tax free, to accomplish what exactly?

nevermind, stay in hisec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-08-29 23:21:15 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
If you could exploit all of these resources without a sovereignty infrastructure, or if you could build the required sovereignty infrastructure to do it on this scale by yourself, then there would be no need to rent. But you cannot, and so your options as an entity that cannot take space and build a sovereignty infrastructure are to just do without these riches or to rent for acces to them. Renting is a much lower-effort option, and its real costs are considerably less than those that would be required to fully invest oneself in the taking and holding of space.

Deny yourself, deny goons.

OK. Here ya go, buddy! Link.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-08-29 23:23:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
Enduros wrote:
Andski wrote:
Enduros wrote:
half of those 135 are GSF alts


"18/135 = 0.5" -- you, 2013

According to dotlan only 1 corp is more then 2 weeks old. Also accepting tinfoils hats contracted to me in stations I have no access to.


so for some reason you think we would create shill corps that don't pay rent, recruit a bunch of people into those corps to use our space rent and tax free, to accomplish what exactly?

nevermind, stay in hisec

Don't listen to Andski. We would do exactly that, all for the explicit purpose of twirling our waxed mustaches while we cackle maniacally. All of this would occur while wearing a smoking jacket, petting a white cat, wearing a monocle, and enjoying a dinner of human infants sauteed in the blood of maidens.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#110 - 2013-08-29 23:25:22 UTC
Andski wrote:


so for some reason you think we would create shill corps that don't pay rent, recruit a bunch of people into those corps to use our space rent and tax free, to accomplish what exactly?

nevermind, stay in hisec


If it smells like a scam, chances are Goons are doing it.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-08-29 23:26:33 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Andski wrote:
Enduros wrote:
Andski wrote:
Enduros wrote:
half of those 135 are GSF alts


"18/135 = 0.5" -- you, 2013

According to dotlan only 1 corp is more then 2 weeks old. Also accepting tinfoils hats contracted to me in stations I have no access to.


so for some reason you think we would create shill corps that don't pay rent, recruit a bunch of people into those corps to use our space rent and tax free, to accomplish what exactly?

nevermind, stay in hisec

Don't listen to Andski. We would do exactly that, all for the explicit purpose of twirling our waxed mustaches while we cackle maniacally. All of this would occur while wearing a smoking jacket, petting a white cat, wearing a monocle, and enjoying a dinner of human infants sauteed in the blood of maidens.


I like you better than the other goons. Don't let them tell you to stop posting.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-08-29 23:29:02 UTC
Andski wrote:
A rental agreement benefits both parties. The owners of the space make ISK from space that would otherwise be unused and the renters live in space where they can mine, rat, or whatever without getting taxed or having to go on ops.

If that bothers you, don't rent.

This right here. There exists a breed of EVE player who would like the benefits of nullsec space without having to do the things that generally go on in nullsec campaigns. Some folks just want to make more money than they would in high sec for the same or less effort. Some folks genuinely enjoy the idea of running their own little industrial or trade empires. Renting in nullsec is a means to an end, and it comes without any of the overhead and logistical concerns. I would liken renting space to renting an apartment in real life: you get all the benefits of living somewhere, without being responsible for the upkeep. I personally rent in real life and would never want to be burdened with the responsibilities of maintaining the building and the grounds. It's pretty much the same deal with space rentals.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#113 - 2013-08-29 23:29:43 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Andski wrote:


so for some reason you think we would create shill corps that don't pay rent, recruit a bunch of people into those corps to use our space rent and tax free, to accomplish what exactly?

nevermind, stay in hisec


If it smells like a scam, chances are Goons are doing it.

Goons are not allowed to rental scam. If you catch a goon rental scamming, then please send me an evemail with logs and screenshots to show what happened.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-08-29 23:30:54 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Andski wrote:

so for some reason you think we would create shill corps that don't pay rent, recruit a bunch of people into those corps to use our space rent and tax free, to accomplish what exactly?

nevermind, stay in hisec

Don't listen to Andski. We would do exactly that, all for the explicit purpose of twirling our waxed mustaches while we cackle maniacally. All of this would occur while wearing a smoking jacket, petting a white cat, wearing a monocle, and enjoying a dinner of human infants sauteed in the blood of maidens.


I like you better than the other goons. Don't let them tell you to stop posting.

My posting is powered by space likes. Please support my endeavour to never stop posting!

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-08-29 23:32:01 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
People like paying for the privilege of not having to defend their space. You know those alliances that fall apart when they get invaded? They should be renting.

It really is the best of both worlds, much like having a condo or a townhome.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-08-29 23:32:21 UTC
I don't know.

The issue that I see is that everyone that wants to rent does it from NCDOT now.

And that most non-goons don't like goons because of past experiences so they might have a problem giving them money.

Unless former TEST people really don't hold a grudge about being whipped so badly and decide to rent their former homes from the goons.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#117 - 2013-08-29 23:32:34 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
If you've been a pampered nullbear who was recently made to leave your sov due to, uh, reasons, come to Curse! All the benefits of null and no one can invade and take it away from you. Bring your carrier to rat in and don't forget those faction fittings!


Why do insufferable people on the EVE-O forums think it cute to append -bear to every goddamned thing?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-08-29 23:34:58 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't know.

The issue that I see is that everyone that wants to rent does it from NCDOT now.

Our rates are better. Come to the dark side! We have cookies.

Quote:
And that most non-goons don't like goons because of past experiences so they might have a problem giving them money.

False. Most non-goons are completely ignorant of goons (and of most of the metagame), because they do not interact with other players, read the forums, or otherwise interact with out of game resources. We would like to grab those players, who are content to play a single player version of EVE Online in high sec, and put them in nullsec where they will make even more money than they already make doing missions.

Quote:
Unless former TEST people really don't hold a grudge about being whipped so badly and decide to rent their former homes from the goons.

We recently acquired several corporations that fled from TEST Alliance. See above, re: dark side, cookies, etc.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-08-29 23:36:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
People like paying for the privilege of not having to defend their space. You know those alliances that fall apart when they get invaded? They should be renting.

Test Alliance, Please Rent (then NCdot will defend you even if you manage to drop all your sov)

By my recollection, it was always N3 forces who were defending TEST assets during AUTZ when my Siege Fleets would otherwise roll around unmolested and set half of the region on fire every night.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn

Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#120 - 2013-08-29 23:37:10 UTC
Shederov Blood wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:
Why waste your ISK so as to have fun.
Yeah, don't you hate it when people spend ISK and claim that they're doing it to have fun? That is so lame. Fun is simply irrelevant beside a great big pile of ISK.

Have you met Gevlon Goblin?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn