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Why pay rent to live in Null Sec.
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Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2013-08-30 06:22:45 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
People, just stay out of Sovereign Space. Let the Power Blocs actually work so as to maintain control of what they have.
Find other ways to enjoy Eve. Don't waste your ISK, by giving it to Overlords. Don't help the Power Blocs become even richer and stronger from Your play time. Don't let them make You into their puppet/safety buffer.


Your points are wrong and your post was generally terrible but I do want to congratulate you on spelling bloc correctly.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#182 - 2013-08-30 06:25:00 UTC
Just call it the clusterfuck coalition

It's a name to be proud of.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#183 - 2013-08-30 06:34:20 UTC
Bend the knee, and your lord liege will protect you. Compared with what you can earn in nullsec, we aren't talking lords and peasants here. Maybe lords and vassals. Lazy vassals. That don't fight. It will all come tumbling down on 14.04.14. Screencap it.

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ﾉ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2013-08-30 06:39:47 UTC
I do not know how GSF members react and post in other threads, but they are certainly active in this one.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#185 - 2013-08-30 06:40:50 UTC
It's because of Lyris Nairn, he's the Tales of Narnia, Sky Captain of ~our hearts~, Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot com

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#186 - 2013-08-30 06:48:16 UTC
This was a non-reimbursable posting mission. Any losses in sanity, intelligence or "true goon"ness will not be made up to us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Prince Kobol
#187 - 2013-08-30 06:57:27 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
I do not know how GSF members react and post in other threads, but they are certainly active in this one.


Well of course they are, its called a charm offensive :)

For years the goons have mocked people who have rented but now they need those same people.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2013-08-30 07:06:09 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
...And that most non-goons don't like goons because....

False. Most non-goons are completely ignorant of goons (and of most of the metagame), because...

I don't dislike Goonswarm Federation or its members, however...

I treat the group sort of like a large Dragon resting sleepily on top of a mound of gold and jewels; and him telling me, "Go ahead take some, I have plenty, and I don't mind". Now maybe the Dragon is being truthful and maybe he isn't.

Regardless caution is advised. Blink
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#189 - 2013-08-30 09:00:15 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
S'Way wrote:
The only sensible way to rent is by setting up an alt corp and renting an upgraded system, fill it by recruiting about a dozen active players who want to rat / mine etc in 0.0. Set corp tax to 20 or 25% then only log in on that alt occasionally to do corp admin stuff (pay bills / fuel a tower that you're reacting at etc).
The income from that easily pays the rental bill and gives you a couple of billion at least per month left over for doing almost nothing.

Invest that income into high-sec trading / research projects and you've got your very own ship replacement fund for any pvp / ganking you want to do (plus you're able to plex your accounts from that as well). Oh and much more freedom to still shoot at anyone you don't like (it's not like your corp admin alt will pvp) due to not having to comply with the renters blue list on your used pvp characters.

You can also do this in empire and recruit L4 mission runners, but with lower tax rates, the income isn't as good but it's still respectable if you can't afford the initial investment to rent in 0.0.


... Do you have an alt/main in RAZOR Alliance? 'Cos this is pretty much exactly what a guy is doing right now.

Not in Razor. Quit running the 0.0 renter alt corp a few months ago now, but seriously thinking of starting it up again if I can find the time to put into recruiting etc (the worst part of it).
I do know at least 3 other guys currently doing this atm though, one in the drone regions, another in the south and the third is north so it's a common thing for those with enough isk to invest into.
It's good business for the landlord, the person running the corp gets a solid monthly income and those who otherwise wouldn't get to go to 0.0 have that opportunity. (and more people in 0.0 is good for the pvp'ers, a good situation for all really.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-08-30 12:21:10 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
- Lyris Nairn, what's up with the PR campaign you seem to have initiated?
- Why the multi-multiple posting?

I try to respond to all or most of the posts in a thread that interests me. I arrived to this one late, so a bunch of my responses are all smashed together in one big posting frenzy. It also makes it a lot easier for me keep up with where the thread left off, or where I was when I was last reading it: anything past the wall of me is new.


Quote:
- Why do players choose to rent? Sure, there are riches in Null Sec, but in the end, renters are providing their landlords with a passive source of easy income.

For numerous reasons expressed in many posts, the choice to rent can be very profitable for the renting party. Consider that some systems rent for as low as 2 billion ISK per month, and compare that 2 billion ISK to the 10% or 15% ratting tax that would be imposed on PVE activity in most nullsec corps. It doesn't take very many man-hours of ratting to make the flat rental fee a more attractive alternative than a percentage tax, and it is our assumption that many corps will take advantage of that.

Quote:
And we are talking about a game, not real life. You might pay rent in real life, but paying rent in a game, to me, is silly.
- Why? Because you are paying other "players"" so as to have fun. (Paying CCP, the game maker, to access the game is totally different. Sadly I can't find the words so as to describe this difference).

I don't see a tangible difference. I pay ~550 million ISK per month per account to play EVE Online. That is considerably higher than what the per-player cost to rent space is. If you are OK with PLEX, then I don't see why you wouldn't be OK with renting.

Quote:
Fair enough, this emergent player behaviour is good business for both landlord and renter, but still, why choose to bassically pay other players for the right to play.

Because you lack any of the numerous things required to take and hold sovereignty and maintain desired upgrades.

Quote:
People, just stay out of Sovereign Space. Let the Power Blocs actually work so as to maintain control of what they have.
Find other ways to enjoy Eve. Don't waste your ISK, by giving it to Overlords. Don't help the Power Blocs become even richer and stronger from Your play time. Don't let them make You into their puppet/safety buffer.

This is certainly an option, but player controlled space is provably better than NPC space in terms of its resources. If people want to stay in NPC space and use those resources, then that's fine. But if they want the benefit of upgraded systems without having to fight for them and maintain the sovereignty fees, then renting is a viable option.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-08-30 12:25:41 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But the ~isk per hour~. You can only mine so much in highsec, oh and RORQURAL BOOSTS.

I cannot overstate the benefit of Rorqual bonuses. Orcas are nice, but a Rorqual reduces your Strip Miner's cycle time to 104 seconds. Especially if you multiply this increase over the Orca by several miners, there is a really big boost to mining yield. You can reasonably mine 50 million ISK per hour per miner (average across all ore types) with Rorqual bonuses, which doesn't seem like much compared tot he 100 million ISK per hour of active ratting until you consider how easily mining scales. You can run 30 miners at 50 million ISK per hour per miner with roughly the same amount of effort as running 1 or 2, whereas trying to keep that many ratting accounts sorted, even if they were AFK drone boats, would be a nightmare of watching multiple locals and tabbing through dozens of clients to ensure constant output. With a mining team, you can pile all of them into one system, monitor one local, and never run out of resources to mine because of the way mining anomalies work.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2013-08-30 12:27:22 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Just call it the clusterfuck coalition

It's a name to be proud of.

I wonder if Riverini still calls us the Deklein Coalition.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-08-30 12:27:50 UTC
Deka Ekato wrote:
I do not know how GSF members react and post in other threads, but they are certainly active in this one.

I picked a thread and started posting. Never stop posting. Learn from my example.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#194 - 2013-08-30 12:29:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
It's because of Lyris Nairn, he's the Tales of Narnia, Sky Captain of ~our hearts~, Tomorrow's Goonfleet dot com

Sup.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
This was a non-reimbursable posting mission. Any losses in sanity, intelligence or "true goon"ness will not be made up to us.

I lost my hauling Orca while writing one of those big posts.

I regret that I have but one Orca to lose for my posts.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-08-30 12:30:08 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Deka Ekato wrote:
I do not know how GSF members react and post in other threads, but they are certainly active in this one.


Well of course they are, its called a charm offensive :)

For years the goons have mocked people who have rented but now they need those same people.


Look up my posting history and you will see this posting style is pretty typical. I see a thread, I post a lot in it, and then suddenly people are flabbergasted that someone would type some words on a computer.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#196 - 2013-08-30 12:30:49 UTC
S'Way wrote:
Lyris Nairn wrote:
S'Way wrote:
The only sensible way to rent is by setting up an alt corp and renting an upgraded system, fill it by recruiting about a dozen active players who want to rat / mine etc in 0.0. Set corp tax to 20 or 25% then only log in on that alt occasionally to do corp admin stuff (pay bills / fuel a tower that you're reacting at etc).
The income from that easily pays the rental bill and gives you a couple of billion at least per month left over for doing almost nothing.

Invest that income into high-sec trading / research projects and you've got your very own ship replacement fund for any pvp / ganking you want to do (plus you're able to plex your accounts from that as well). Oh and much more freedom to still shoot at anyone you don't like (it's not like your corp admin alt will pvp) due to not having to comply with the renters blue list on your used pvp characters.

You can also do this in empire and recruit L4 mission runners, but with lower tax rates, the income isn't as good but it's still respectable if you can't afford the initial investment to rent in 0.0.


... Do you have an alt/main in RAZOR Alliance? 'Cos this is pretty much exactly what a guy is doing right now.

Not in Razor. Quit running the 0.0 renter alt corp a few months ago now, but seriously thinking of starting it up again if I can find the time to put into recruiting etc (the worst part of it).
I do know at least 3 other guys currently doing this atm though, one in the drone regions, another in the south and the third is north so it's a common thing for those with enough isk to invest into.
It's good business for the landlord, the person running the corp gets a solid monthly income and those who otherwise wouldn't get to go to 0.0 have that opportunity. (and more people in 0.0 is good for the pvp'ers, a good situation for all really.

You should get on it while the getting is good.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#197 - 2013-08-30 12:34:38 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:

I don't dislike Goonswarm Federation or its members, however...



Well, i do, those guys can do to hell, then hades, then whatever other underworld of torment is available for a few centuries, and after that, a weekend in DETROIT!

I mean seriously, I'd just got all comfortable and was able to rat in Delve when I was in IT, and here comes goons. Later, I was in Raiden and then NCDot and here comes (you guessed it), goons again so back to empire I go. I end up in TEST....just in time for a Goon/TEST falling out and war and there I go out of null again......

The entire reason for any Goon offensive is to stop Jenn aSide from enjoying null sec (it's not paranoia if it always happens). They don't observe the law of the blue doughnut at all!
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2013-08-30 13:01:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:

I don't dislike Goonswarm Federation or its members, however...



Well, i do, those guys can do to hell, then hades, then whatever other underworld of torment is available for a few centuries, and after that, a weekend in DETROIT!

I mean seriously, I'd just got all comfortable and was able to rat in Delve when I was in IT, and here comes goons. Later, I was in Raiden and then NCDot and here comes (you guessed it), goons again so back to empire I go. I end up in TEST....just in time for a Goon/TEST falling out and war and there I go out of null again......

The entire reason for any Goon offensive is to stop Jenn aSide from enjoying null sec (it's not paranoia if it always happens). They don't observe the law of the blue doughnut at all!

Big smile
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2013-08-30 13:11:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
The entire reason for any Goon offensive is to stop Jenn aSide from enjoying null sec (it's not paranoia if it always happens).

it's really sad that you "enjoy null sec" only when you "rat in peace" Sad

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#200 - 2013-08-30 13:26:41 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The entire reason for any Goon offensive is to stop Jenn aSide from enjoying null sec (it's not paranoia if it always happens).

it's really sad that you "enjoy null sec" only when you "rat in peace" Sad


What's sadder is when people can't take a joke and misunderstand what's posted.