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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Gravimetric Probe

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Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#1 - 2013-08-28 11:50:56 UTC
A ship, has mass... mass has a gravity,

a cloaked ship can not hide its mass, and thus can not hide the effect that its gravity has on the objects around it

A gravimetric probe is designed to detect subtle variations in the gravity field in an area and thus locate cloaked ships


Ed
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-08-28 11:54:20 UTC
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-28 11:58:50 UTC
I miss the days when they had a different probe for each different site type and then different probes for each scan range.
Rather than this "there are only 2 probe you ever use".

There was way more money in it back then too because it was actually difficult and took some skill rather than being just a time sink.

As far as your idea... only if they add tons of random junk in space that you can pick up too, stuff like micro asteroids, wreckage, lumps of rock and space junk all to interferer and make it more challenging.

Oh... also, what happens when someone warps to s system, cloaks and then just leaves them selves traveling in a direction while cloaked.

I doubt you could scan them down and warp to them before they've traveled 2km
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-08-28 12:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699&find=unread

Beat me to it. Smile

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#5 - 2013-08-28 12:04:16 UTC
true, im guessin you would not really be able to lock them and then warp to them befor they have moved... however, you could get on same grid as them

and a realy determined group could get a bunch of ships on grid... then scatter.. someone might pass with in range and force a decloak... the odds would be slim...

would add a new and unique strat to the cloaking game....

bigger ships would be more easily detected via the probes (higher gravity signature) then smaller ships... smaller ships moving fast and in straight line in theory could be off grid befor you even warped there... bigger cloaked ships would be caught easier with the scatter method due to slower speed...
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-08-28 12:08:06 UTC
A better idea is to just be aware of the cloaker, carry on your day as usual but just stay in fleets, stay aligned and drop bubbles when you know they're active.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#7 - 2013-08-28 12:17:13 UTC
I do not have a problem with cloaks... I love em, I use em a lot, and have fun with them

I do have a problem with 100% invulnerability/undetectable ......

nothing is 100% undetectable... you can mask your electromagnetic signature and make ships that are non-detectable via passive electronic measures...... you can make ships that are electromagnetically absorbent and insanely difficult to detect by active electronic measures....

but ABSOLUTELY NOTHING can hide gravity or the effects of gravity...

the question is. are there sensors sensitive enough to detect the effects that a few hundred tons of metal in space have on the objects near it (the term "near" is relative in regards to discussing "space")

Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#8 - 2013-08-28 12:23:36 UTC
BTW .. this is were I got the idea.........

"A magnetic anomaly detector (MAD) is an instrument used to detect minute variations in the Earth's magnetic field. The term refers specifically to magnetometers used by military forces to detect submarines (a mass of ferromagnetic material creates a detectable disturbance in the magnetic field); the military MAD gear is a descendent of geomagnetic survey instruments used to search for minerals by the disturbance of the normal earth-field."

A submarine is basically a cloaked ship....

thus we could add in a new tactical aspect to the game in which specialized ships hunting cloaked ships

sub hunters hunting the submarines........

Ed
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-08-28 12:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Edwin McAlister wrote:
A submarine is basically a cloaked ship....

No.

A) A submarine is a submerged ship.

Submerged in water, which can hide you from sight and dampen your infrared signature.

However a standard modern day submarine cannot and should not be compared to a cloaked fantasy space ship in a computer game.

B) The reason why cloaked ships cannot be detected is hidden deeply within the rule works of game balancing magic.

If cloaked ships could be detected then a certain set of other, seemingly unrelated, mechanics would have to be changed as well. For more information, please click the link in my signature.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#10 - 2013-08-28 12:53:02 UTC
im just trying to find a way to make it more interesting.. (that is the purpose of this section of the forums)

the cloaking hide and seek game is BOREING... if there were destroyers that could actively hunt for my stealth ship.. making me constantly having to maneuver.. change directions... move up or down... dodge between destroyers as the web slowly closes around my ship......

the mechanics would be simple.. the effect on game play would be huge....

the destroyer stealth hunters.. the type of electronics package needed.. they would only be able to detect a direction of the stealth ship (with in +/- X degrees) but not a distance...

then multiple players would have to be able to understand 3 dimensional space with azimuths and cooperate / coordinate their maneuvers to slowly encircle the stealth ship

gravimetric probes get the hunters close... hunters then have to hunt / encircle / close the net.....while the hunted has to maneuver constantly.. change direction... evade

or perhaps the hunted becomes the hunter... and just befor the noose closes.. he decloaks and pops one of the hunters.. warps off and then the hunters have to start all over again... find.. encircle .. ensnare...
John Bishop
Forgot to repair
#11 - 2013-08-28 12:53:18 UTC
i actually agree with this. soit gets you on grid with the cloak ship, so what. that in itself does not guarantee a kill.and there should be ways to detect cloak ships,

i understand this is not star trek but kirk did it in star trek six the undiscovered country with an exhaust sniffing torpedo...


you could warp to grid then use destroyers with a new weapon similar to depth charges or use smart bombs and run a search pattern to find the ship.

it doesnt have to be the iwin button that you guys are making it out to be. it should be hard to kill a cloaky but impossible
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#12 - 2013-08-28 13:04:24 UTC
this is something I posted on another anti cloaking thread...

Quote:
perhaps it is view point... so many people see the cloak as something that is active making a ship "invisible"... we are talking about space here... something the size of our ships, for the most part wont be visible to the human eye, unless at extremely close range and are only visible to some sort of electromagnetic detection....

when a cloak is "activated" it is not making the ship "invisible" it is masking the electromagnetic signature of the ship, making it invisible to detection by active electromagnetic means......... turning off excess power systems... dampeners on the engines... using maneuver thrusters instead of main drives .... special internal shielding to mask internal electromagnetic systems.... this shielding would have the side effect of making those same electronics harder to disrupt by some sort of "burst" of energy near by

it is not "put on the magic ring and no one can see me" type of item




I want this to be a CHALLENGE.. and FUN... and possibly add a new aspect to the game

I don't want an insta kill button....... but I do enjoy a good hunt........ yes, the idea would need tuneing....

player A is cloaked... probes detect his general location

Fleet uber destroyes warp to location... player A could, just decloak and warp off.. or just warp if one o those fancy cloakies

However, if player A is feeling ballsy ... this could initiate a hunter / hunted seek and destroy fun time...

what if there are two ships that are cloaked... if they are both the same size they will have same gravity signature.. this could cause confusion for the hunters...

The purpose of this thread is to promote ideas and discussion,

suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
#13 - 2013-08-28 13:08:26 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
im just trying to find a way to make it more interesting.. (that is the purpose of this section of the forums)

the cloaking hide and seek game is BOREING... if there were destroyers that could actively hunt for my stealth ship.. making me constantly having to maneuver.. change directions... move up or down... dodge between destroyers as the web slowly closes around my ship......


I like how you try to twist it around and make it sound as if you're the cloaky and not the crying carebear.





If being cloaked is so boring... decloak Roll

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-08-28 13:13:59 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
im just trying to find a way to make it more interesting...


Regarding your MAD or in this case GAD (Gravimetric Anomaly Detector).

As soon as the cloaked ship hides in the near vicinity of a planet, moon or the sun (as almost always) it'll be undetectable once more as it's own minor grav disturbance would be conealed by the natural behemoth right besides the ship.

So, that point is moot. At best.

And if CCP ever implements the ability to detect cloaked ships at range, I want my cloaked shipt to be able to do more than just sit there invisible, gloating on about how many people won't undock because of my ominous (probably AFK) presence in their system.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#15 - 2013-08-28 13:24:24 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Edwin McAlister wrote:
im just trying to find a way to make it more interesting...


Regarding your MAD or in this case GAD (Gravimetric Anomaly Detector).

As soon as the cloaked ship hides in the near vicinity of a planet, moon or the sun (as almost always) it'll be undetectable once more as it's own minor grav disturbance would be conealed by the natural behemoth right besides the ship.

So, that point is moot. At best.



that is not quite true...

we have detected planets that we could not see orbiting stars because of the influence that the gravity of that planet had on that star causing it to "wobble"
we have on quite a few occasions, located objects in space much smaller because of the gravitational influence they had on the larger object...

your small ship, still has gravity and would affect the moon, even if only microscopically, and if sensors are not sensitive enough, they probably would not detect it ............ however, if your stealth ship sat in the stars corona then yea, moot point at best
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-08-28 13:30:42 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
we have detected planets


TL:DR: Your ship is not a planet.

Yup. Planets. Huge, giant chunks of rock, metal, gas and lots of other stuff.

They circle around their sun, and whenever they're between their star and us. We can see a slight decrease of the stars light (it also looks like it's wobbling). That's all. And since cloaked ships are also invisible... Your point is still invalid.

Time for bad WH40K jokes:
Evil tongues whisper the mars may merely be the main command bridge of the latest emperor class war ship.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#17 - 2013-08-28 13:36:06 UTC
Posting in a "NERF CLOAKING MOOOOARRRR!" thread.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#18 - 2013-08-28 13:39:25 UTC
Edwin McAlister wrote:
A ship, has mass... mass has a gravity,

a cloaked ship can not hide its mass, and thus can not hide the effect that its gravity has on the objects around it

A gravimetric probe is designed to detect subtle variations in the gravity field in an area and thus locate cloaked ships


Ed


Read the Covert Ops Cloaking Device description:

"A very specialized piece of technology, the covert ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with specific covert ops vessels. Although it could theoretically work on other ships, its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations will overwhelm non-specialized computing hardware."
Source: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops_Cloaking_Device_II

Now think again why you should be able to detect cloaked vessels?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#19 - 2013-08-28 13:43:50 UTC
Your probe can measure gravity in it's vicinity.

My cloak creates a bubble of false zero gravity as far as any outside the bubble is concerned.

So by all means, your gravimetric probe can detect my cloaked ship when the probe is within the area covered by the cloak. Or, it can detect it when it's within 2km, as can anything else.
CCP Falcon
#20 - 2013-08-28 14:37:04 UTC
There are already threads regarding cloaking, probing and scanning down cloaked ships active on the forums.

Please use existing threads and avoid creating spam.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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