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Someone has a 'little' Napoleon complex..

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#141 - 2013-08-30 04:08:13 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I forgot to say, this thread has not made any of the eve online sinners repent.


How hard it is to say:

"I am an evil player and I'm OK with it."

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#142 - 2013-08-30 04:13:01 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I'm a shareholder in the New Order, I supply BPCs, rigs, modules and ships to them, as well as sell ships, modules etc to both miners and gankers.

While I may have a moral code, money does not, in the real world I would probably be considered a war profiteer.

You follow the Code though !

According to James 315, that is more than enough justification.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#143 - 2013-08-30 04:13:33 UTC
Your many "riskless" sacrifices in the enforcement of the New Halima Code are greatly appreciated by EVE Online.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#144 - 2013-08-30 04:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

No, you are suggesting that we leave our morality (which is an inseparable part of who we are) at the login screen. And that would be fine and possible, if the actions that we took in-game had no external effect. But for whatever reason, the actions in-game obviously do have external effects. That is the reason we play the game at all.

Your suggestion is analagous to dressing up in a gorilla suit and beating someone to death, then taking off the suit and expecting not to be judged for your actions because, after all, you were a gorilla. We are suggesting that, no, you're a murderer.
Now you're really reaching. Go away.
Quote:
It's possible to just play the game and still hurt someone's feelings, just like it's possible to just play ice hockey and still break someone's leg, but if you asked most ice hockey players, I'd bet most of them would tell you they'd rather lose the game than break their opponent's leg. They would put their moral integrity above winning the game. And, even rarer than someone willing to break another person's leg to win would be someone who was willing to LOSE so long as they were able to break someone elses' leg. Similarly, when you pay effort, time, money, ISK, etc. in EVE in the hope of just ruining someone's game, that is a moral decision.
{sarcasm}You've never played ice hockey have you? {/sarcasm} It's the only sport where the game starts sometime during the fight.

The difference between Eve and, using your example ice hockey, is that in Eve no physical harm is done, it's all 1's and 0's not bones and physical pain.

Quote:
To justify our behavior with "It's just a game." is no more noble or defensible than "She deserved it." or "Blacks/Jews/women/etc. aren't our equals." or "It was a war." or even "I was drunk.". What happens in Vegas DOES NOT actually stay in Vegas.
Frankly that is an unconscionable comparison, a computer game should never ever be compared to your examples. You should be ashamed of yourself for comparing a form of virtual entertainment to such things, you sir, disgust me.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#145 - 2013-08-30 04:21:41 UTC
Don't you feel guilty about ganking yet, having been compared to murder, ****, racial profiling and substance abuse?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#146 - 2013-08-30 04:22:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Don't you feel guilty about ganking yet, having been compared to murder, ****, racial profiling and substance abuse?

Actually no, he's just been added to my gank alts watch list Pirate

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-08-30 04:23:42 UTC
Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?

I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#148 - 2013-08-30 04:31:42 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Don't you feel guilty about ganking yet, having been compared to murder, ****, racial profiling and substance abuse?

Actually no, he's just been added to my gank alts watch list Pirate

That's like double murder

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#149 - 2013-08-30 04:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?

I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you.

His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so.

Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable, or morally wrong.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-08-30 04:37:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?

I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you.

His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so.

Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable.


So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even?

If that is too extreme how about "Was it right or wrong for him to say that?"

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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#151 - 2013-08-30 04:41:33 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Now you're really reaching.


Do you know any really bad people, Jonah Gravenstein? What do they tell you about why they are bad? What does their "morality" look like? Don't you think they have justifications for the bad things they do, and don't you think those justifications look a hell of a lot like some of yours? Why are they "bad" but the people in EVE are "just playing"?

I almost think EVE players are worse, because they only do it because they know they face little/no real world consequence. At least a real murderer takes a real risk, faces a real loss.

BTW, I'm in Osmon, if you feel like ganking me. I can ship down to a Retriever if you need.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#152 - 2013-08-30 04:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Captain Tardbar wrote:

So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even?

I would say it was idiotic, over exaggerated, ill considered and offensive. Some may well consider it immoral, I won't make that judgement as it was clearly a comparison designed to elicit an emotional response.

TL;DR It was a deliberate troll, and I fell for it hook line and sinker.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#153 - 2013-08-30 04:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Well you could say his morality offends you using a virtual extension of the game? No?

I mean he seems to have gotten an emotional response out of you.

His comparison was in no way moral, he compared a video game to racism, sexual assault, war crimes and substance abuse. Three of them are amongst the foulest things you can do to other human beings, two of them have a long lasting physical and mental effect on the victims, the third has the potential to do so.

Depriving someone of pixels in a game, that incidentally, is all about conflict and power is in no way comparable.


So would you say that his text was immoral? Maybe evil even?

I would say it was idiotic, over exaggerated, ill considered and offensive. Some may well consider it immoral, I consider it stupidity.


Was it wrong for him to say it?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#154 - 2013-08-30 04:45:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Captain Tardbar wrote:

You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it?


Right and wrong don't come into it, it was a troll, specifically designed to offend.

But yes it was wrong to use such a comparison, not because of morals, but because of the nature and magnitude of what he compared the destruction of pixels to.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-08-30 04:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:

You didn't answer the question... Was it wrong for him to say it?


Right and wrong don't come into it, it was a troll, specifically designed to offend.

But yes it was wrong to use such a comparison, not because of morals, but because of the nature of what he compares the destruction of pixels to.


So its neither right nor wrong to troll?

Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?

But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?

And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#156 - 2013-08-30 04:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Of course it's a troll, this is General Discussion.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMUZRcoBZro (wow that's pretty hilarious, thanks youtube)


Totally not contentless posting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#157 - 2013-08-30 05:03:47 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Now you're really reaching.


Do you know any really bad people, Jonah Gravenstein? What do they tell you about why they are bad? What does their "morality" look like? Don't you think they have justifications for the bad things they do, and don't you think those justifications look a hell of a lot like some of yours? Why are they "bad" but the people in EVE are "just playing"?
You don't appear to be able to separate reality from fantasy, I suggest you get that checked out, it's a common symptom of mental illness. Eve is a fantasy, the same as every other game, as well as films and books, they're entertainment, an escape from the reality of life.

Quote:
I almost think EVE players are worse, because they only do it because they know they face little/no real world consequence. At least a real murderer takes a real risk, faces a real loss.
Once again, it's a fantasy world, an escape from the drudgery of reality. The punishment fits the crime, murdering someone in real life is very different from exploding someone in an internet spaceships game.

Quote:
BTW, I'm in Osmon, if you feel like ganking me. I can ship down to a Retriever if you need.
Why would I do it when you're expecting it? It's much more fun for me to do it in 6 months time when you're not.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#158 - 2013-08-30 05:06:06 UTC
I think he wants to try The Mittani for imperialist colonialization, illegal occupation, slavekeeping and genocide for this multiple wars of aggression in the eve online universe.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#159 - 2013-08-30 05:07:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Quote:
BTW, I'm in Osmon, if you feel like ganking me. I can ship down to a Retriever if you need.
Why would I do it when you're expecting it? It's much more fun for me to do it in 6 months time when you're not.

Yeah, plus if he's gonna ship "down" from his deadspace fit, meta upgrades hulk, it's not as good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIyVlseRmVc more content, trippy colors on this

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#160 - 2013-08-30 05:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Captain Tardbar wrote:


So its neither right nor wrong to troll?

Shouldn't it be wrong to troll?
I'm indifferent to be honest, a little annoyed at myself for getting caught by it, but that's life.

Quote:
But anyways, aren't you offended by the troll because it offends your morality of the comparisons?

And if you are offended doesn't that mean that there is some right and wrong in forums which is an extension of EVE?
I'm offended because of the magnitude, not the morality, of what was used for comparison, it's as simple as that. If he had used for example a so called "victimless crime", such as embezzlement or something that would normally be covered by insurance, that would have been non offensive.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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