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Someone has a 'little' Napoleon complex..

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Zappity
Kurved Trading
#61 - 2013-08-29 04:17:33 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I have never understood this debate.

That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.

You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.

EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it.


People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.


Don't be daft. That's why I put inverted commas around game. The game is just an interface to allow human interactions in a simulated setting. The game itself doesn't make people 'sad', people do.

The only part of the actual game that makes people sad is missions. And POS management. And... actually, I think I'll be quiet now!

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#62 - 2013-08-29 04:18:23 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I have never understood this debate.

That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.

You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.

EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it.


People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.


Don't be daft. That's why I put inverted commas around game. The game is just an interface to allow human interactions in a simulated setting. The game itself doesn't make people 'sad', people do.

The only part of the actual game that makes people sad is missions. And POS management. And... actually, I think I'll be quiet now!

POSes only affect a small portion of players anyway so :ccp:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-08-29 04:48:42 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Don't be daft. That's why I put inverted commas around game. The game is just an interface to allow human interactions in a simulated setting. The game itself doesn't make people 'sad', people do.


The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-08-29 05:43:24 UTC
Rhes wrote:
The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game.


Why play the game at all if, as you are implying, no fulfillment is possible? If the game has no power to make me sad or happy or angry or excited, then what good is it? What keeps you logging in?

Or are you implying that only people who win games should keep playing games and people who lose them should seek fulfillment in something else?
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#65 - 2013-08-29 05:56:18 UTC
"justice in her own nature has been shown to be best for the soul in her own nature. Let a man do what is just, whether he have the ring of Gyges or not"
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#66 - 2013-08-29 06:16:12 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Rhes wrote:
The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game.

Why play the game at all if, as you are implying, no fulfillment is possible? If the game has no power to make me sad or happy or angry or excited, then what good is it? What keeps you logging in?

Or are you implying that only people who win games should keep playing games and people who lose them should seek fulfillment in something else?

N3 exists to destroy GSF, only one will survive, the other will play even more LoL

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#67 - 2013-08-29 06:45:14 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Rhes wrote:
The "simulated setting" is the important bit. If somebody loses isk to a scammer or loses a ship to another player and they feel so sad that it's making them miserable then they shouldn't be playing this game.

Why play the game at all if, as you are implying, no fulfillment is possible? If the game has no power to make me sad or happy or angry or excited, then what good is it? What keeps you logging in?

Or are you implying that only people who win games should keep playing games and people who lose them should seek fulfillment in something else?

N3 exists to destroy GSF, only one will survive, the other will play even more LoL


Ha, I can't stop myself liking your posts today. I guess that's Rhes' point too: if failure or a setback makes you miserable rather than take up the challenge then it might not be the right game.

I still don't see that the simulated setting makes much difference to the issue. Just a personality failure whether it is simulated or not.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-08-29 14:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Rhes wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I have never understood this debate.

That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.

You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.

EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it.


People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.


It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence.

Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing.

The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us".

If it weren't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago.

People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money.

Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump.

And some people keep coming back to Vegas over and over again even though they keep losing because the emotional high of the risk, sadness of loss, and the joy of winning is the thing that makes it worth while.

Its why EVE and gambling are addicting.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-08-29 15:14:52 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I have never understood this debate.

That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.

You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.

EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it.


People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.


It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence.

Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing.

The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us".

If it weren't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago.

People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money.

Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump.

And some people keep coming back to Vegas over and over again even though they keep losing because the emotional high of the risk, sadness of loss, and the joy of winning is the thing that makes it worth while.

Its why EVE and gambling are addicting.


I guess I'm just that oddball who plays games for fun and not to work myself up into an emo frenzy of wrist-slashing despair.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Sarah McKnobbo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-08-29 15:19:02 UTC
Where's the Napoleon Complex part of the post then? lol
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-08-29 16:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I have never understood this debate.

That guy who raged at you in local after you scammed him - were his 'tears' real or was he pretending? Of course they were real, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it.

You negatively affected somebody's emotions. To say 'it doesn't matter because it's not real' is a transparently juvenile defensive position from someone who is uncomfortable with their actions.

EVE is such a good 'game' because it evokes real emotional responses to loss and therefore gain. That's why many of us play it.


People shouldn't play video games that make them feel sad.


It must be dull having a lifeless and apathetic existence.

Why do people watch sad movies and like tragedies? Think of all those people who cried when Leo's character died at the end of the movie Titanic. Certainly if people hated to feel emotions they wouldn't watch stuff like Schindler's List because they want to feel nothing.

The same can be said about entertainment of video games. People felt sad when they lost the weighted storage cube in Portal or the emotion people felt about the ending of "The Last of Us".

If it weren't for the sadness of loss, then EVE would be dull as a game in which you load from the last autosave from 3 minutes ago.

People form emotional attachments to their ships and their isk the same way people attach emotion to real life money.

Why do you think people get such a high risking their hard earned money in Las Vegas? Its because of the emotional attachment to their money and the risk of losing it all makes the heart thump.

And some people keep coming back to Vegas over and over again even though they keep losing because the emotional high of the risk, sadness of loss, and the joy of winning is the thing that makes it worth while.

Its why EVE and gambling are addicting.


I guess I'm just that oddball who plays games for fun and not to work myself up into an emo frenzy of wrist-slashing despair.


Well, the reaction of loss is different between people.

Some people go through denial and pretend that they don't care
Some people get depressed.
Some people get mad and break ****.

And some others look at it as a positive way to start over fresh and learn from their mistakes.

I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.

And if you don't care when you lose ships means that you are no longer emotionally involved in the game and that eventually you will get bored.

This is the downfall of many rich players once they run out of things to spend money on. Long gone are the days when going to null and low meant being excited.

I mean would you really want to play a game where you have infinite lives (or enough lives that it doesn't matter). No. It gets boring when loss doesn't matter.

Of course people like that start to risk their supercaps and titans to feel that unique feeling again they used to feel back in the day when frigate losses hurt.

Of course Titan losses usually result in someone screaming at the top of their lungs on voice comms.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-08-29 16:58:20 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.


I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-08-29 17:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.


I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.


Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment.

Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing?

[edit]

I mean I know people who get mad or depressed when their sports team lose. Personally, I don't care, but I don't like to watch sports either so I have no attachment to any team. I just understand that people can be emotionally attached to just about anything.

Personally, if I had more of an emotional attachments to a sports team and get mad when they lose (i heard sposal abuse rates go up during sports season) then I would enjoy watching sports more because I actually cared if they won or lost.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-08-29 17:03:57 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.


I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.


Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment.

Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing?


You'll have to ask the idiot who started the conversation about "real people" and "real feelings" because I don't have problems separating what happens in a game from what happens in real life.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-08-29 17:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm just saying if there were no fear of loss that EVE would be boring for many people.


I'm not disagreeing with you but losing a ship or getting scammed for some isk shouldn't make you depressed. If you can't enjoy Eve in spite of losses you shouldn't be playing it.


Well it shouldn't make you have to seek therapy and medication, but if you don't feel bad when you get scammed or when you lose a ship, then you probaly will get bored with EVE because you have no emotional attachment.

Why play a game when you don't care about winning or losing?


You'll have to ask the idiot who started the conversation about "real people" and "real feelings" because I don't have problems separating what happens in a game from what happens in real life.


Well, there are no clear defined boundaries of where real life ends and the game begins. I mean I pay real life money to play the game. I use my real life time. I know people in real life who play the game too.

So I am invested into this game with real life time and money and social aspects.

Does it mean I will beat my girlfriend if I lose a billion isk ship?

Most likely not.

But I might be in a grumpy mood when she interacts with me.

I mean if you don't care about the game in some way, then why play it all?

If I don't get happy from killing other ships and I don't get sad when I lose ships then why I am playing this game? To pass time?

I could just watch TV and get the same emotional investment.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-08-29 17:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Also we are living in a society or moving towards a society that has no distinctions between online life and real life.

Facebook is a good example of this. Behavior on facebook is now basically expected to be what and how they behave in real life.

Employers have no distinction with something you said online than something you said to them while you were working there to a customer.

Personally, I don't like this fact much myself but its almost impossible to say that there is such thing as a real life and non-real life online anymore.

I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.

I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.

[edit]

Would you think it would be ok to tell an employer during an interview that you scam people in an online game?

Well... Maybe it would get you hired at Goldman Sach.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-08-29 17:21:26 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.

I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.


When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-08-29 17:25:29 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.

I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.


When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this.


I know plenty of employers who look down on bad online behavior. Some which gets people fired.

I don't know of anyone who was fired over EVE (other than playing it too much while at work).

But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#79 - 2013-08-29 17:28:43 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I mean if I was an employer and found that someone was in Goonswarm, it might make me think about their qualifications and how their behavior online may or may not reflect their behavior in real life.

I might not admit to it, but it would cross my mind.


When you grow up you'll realize that adults don't act like this.


I know plenty of employers who look down on bad online behavior. Some which gets people fired.

I don't know of anyone who was fired over EVE (other than playing it too much while at work).

But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game?



"If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down."

Lots of people would like to chat with your about this in regards to how it relates to dreams, and other fantasies.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-08-29 17:31:00 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
[quote=Rhes]But again, would you tell a potential employer that you scam people in an online game?


This is almost the dumbest argument I've ever seen made on these forums. Unless my game playing habits were somehow germane to the job I was applying to then no I wouldn't give the interviewer a detailed list of my in-game activities.

When other posters ask if you're a 12 year old it's because of posts like the one you just made.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise