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So this is it for eve, is this the future, is it?

First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#101 - 2013-08-28 12:38:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The issue is its just too easy for large alliances to claim a system and then abandon it. If someone actually wants to claim it and use it you can simply bridge to that system your not using, wipe out the smaller guys, then abandon it again. Locking up huge amounts of space with no ongoing effort.

Been exploring null sec lately, jump after jump of sov claimed systems, not a single person in any of them. Can't shoot anything, can't damage anything, most things are invulnerable, the rest are millions of hp's.

Stupid hand holding system. Its not wonder people are exploiting the weaknesses in the system to rent out huge amounts of space that they really couldn't hold if they had to defend and maintain it properly.

If they couldn't defend it one of the other null sec alliances would have taken it. They pay a maintenance fee on each system monthly. And you underestimate the logistics side of it. A lot of the systems are held to provide income and provide places for staging towers, jump bridges and things like that. You won't see people in every system all the time, but that doesn't mean they are unused.
I think the thing you miss here, which a lot of people seem to miss, is that you are a single individual. You will always have a disadvantage to a 10000 man alliance. If they balanced out the game so you could pose a threat to a 10000 man alliance, then the game would be WAY out of balance. It would then favor the individual over the team player, and destroy the main reason for EVE to be an MMO If you want to be an individual and do well, you need to move to a smaller class wormhole. That's what they were designed for. If you want to get involved in null sec, then you need to build up a force of a reasonable size to fight the other alliances.

The fee is negligible otherwise all those systems would not be locked in sov. You don't have to defend it the way defense normally works. You get an email and a whole lot of time to face stomp anyone with your alliance regardless of how far away it is. A roaming gang cant come in to your empty system you abandoned and damage anything because the game mechanics prevent it. No need to have a local defense force. No effort. Crap system.

Also what do you mean if they balance out the game so one person can damage a 10000 man alliance? Are you saying a 10000 man alliance needs to have the server protect its assets from one person. If 10000 people cant defend their assets from one person then they shouldn't have assets.

This is rapidly getting back to the dumb idea that in order to hold sov you should have to have people logged in, in ships, just waiting for someone to attack. The timers are just to enable a fair fight. Sure, they could remove those timers, then a small roaming gang could come and steal sov. For how long?
The 10000 man alliance would just come blap the system into nothing in a matter of minutes and it'd be done. The timers are there to stop another 10000 man alliance from ninja blapping the system out during low population time. For us as the english speakers, we generally have periods of low population, but we're lucky, since US, EU and AU timezones fit together well. But from the point of view of people like the Russians, or country specific alliances, there are huge periods of time where very few people will be logged on. It would simply become a case of whoevers got the biggest timezone spread wins.

The amount of times small gangs come on the forums demanding they get their easy entry into sov is ludicrous. Any change they make to make it easier for you to take sov would make it even easier for a large alliance to take it back, so you'd just lose lot's of stuff. Do you REALLY think a 100 man corp could hold up very long against a 200 man cap fleet with a 1400 man subcap support? You may as well just c9ontract all your starbase structures to the enemy and save on ships.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-08-28 12:38:50 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

This is my only character. You can see that I am not in a one-man corp.
I find it ironic that a renter would challenge me to tell him what I have sovereignty over. I have sovereignty over myself. I think that's more than you can say.
Well not everyone uses only one character... I didn't want to make an assumption about you.

Sovereignty over yourself.... but none in Eve.

Since you don't know me... how did you come to that conclusion?

Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


Justify it however you want, but we can all see pretty clearly what is happening and why. Renters are greedy for space wealth and are willing to surrender their dignity to get at it. It's a lot easier to pay an overlord to occupy your space for you than to fight for it yourself. If the overlord had any respect for his renters, he'd make them members of his corp or alliance. If the renters had any self-respect, there are many other options than paying an overlord half their lunch money to let them eat in peace. The saddest part is that you don't even get to eat in peace, since anyone can still come and camp your system.

Renters are basically slaves, and by choice.
Since you have no experience in a 0.0 corp... how do you know this?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#103 - 2013-08-28 12:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Harry Forever wrote:
thats the main problem you guys just teamed up with everybody, there is nobody to crush anymore, thats the reason nullsec is so ******* boring, goto facebook there you can be cool with your 10000 friends, for this game that habbit just sucks and it is inappropriate! I mentioned it already, I did not join anybody out there because it just reduces the amount of enemies! you people search for 1 ship in a group of 10-20 thats pathetic! start to fight other corps out there! get out of your comfort zone!

the day to day PvP is **** in Sov space, you might have your big fights once a year who knows, but the day to day gameplay is lacking because you could not handle the excitment!

Harry, do you actually log into EVE? There's at least 3 wars going on right now in different section of nullsec. TEST are redeploying to start hassling CFC, CFC are deployed to delve, Tribal band an -A- are currently fighting, 401k are redeploying after being crushed by BL, IE are hitting razor, PL are heading to delve, the list goes on.

You are an absolute moron if you think everyone in null is just ship spinning. Just because you go to an empty system doesn't mean that sov space is empty.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2013-08-28 12:46:34 UTC
Do you know what's really wrong here? This thread. You identify in the OP what you perceive to be a problem, but offer no solutions. You seem to be missing the point of sovereign space completely, that if you can claim it, and keep it, which requires taking it from previous owners and defending it from those who would take it from you, then it's yours to do with as you please. And then you stumble into the misconception that sandbox = communism, that it should be an even playing field, that players who have committed themselves to not just training SP, but learning the game itself as well for years upon years should be handicapped against 'nuggets' who won't even know an Atron from a Moros just for the sake of making it fair.

But that's not what a sandbox is, dolt. A sandbox is an environment in which you are given a spade by mummy and left to your own devices. If the bigger kid in the sandbox who's been there for longer doesn't want you coming over to his corner, you have a choice to not go over there, or make him let you go over there. How you go about doing this is your problem, but where there's a will there's a way. Obviously, you gotta want it bad enough. Maybe there's another kid in the sandbox that wants to get into that corner too, and you can make a deal to share it with him if he successfully helps you get in. Maybe you can distract the bigger kid with a piece of candy and lure him out. These things take thought, kiddo, not running to mummy and complaining that the big kid in the corner won't move. She'll just wonder why you want that corner when there's the rest of the sandbox to play in. Or maybe she'll decide you're not cut out for the playground yet and take you home.

Growing up is hard, dude. Better get cracking.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
#105 - 2013-08-28 12:47:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Harry, do you actually log into EVE? There's at least 3 wars going on right now in different section of nullsec. TEST are redeploying to start hassling CFC, CFC are deployed to delve, Tribal band an -A- are currently fighting, 401k are redeploying after being crushed by BL, IE are hitting razor, PL are heading to delve, the list goes on.

You are an absolute moron if you think everyone in null is just ship spinning. Just because you go to an empty system doesn't mean that sov space is empty.


Hey, his fault for blocking everyone and not being able to play well in groups. Basically it's come down to an idiot playing eve single player and complaining about not being able to do anything.

...

Din Chao
#106 - 2013-08-28 12:48:13 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Justify it however you want, but we can all see pretty clearly what is happening and why. Renters are greedy for space wealth and are willing to surrender their dignity to get at it. It's a lot easier to pay an overlord to occupy your space for you than to fight for it yourself. If the overlord had any respect for his renters, he'd make them members of his corp or alliance. If the renters had any self-respect, there are many other options than paying an overlord half their lunch money to let them eat in peace. The saddest part is that you don't even get to eat in peace, since anyone can still come and camp your system.

Renters are basically slaves, and by choice.


Do you surrender your dignity when you go to work? Pay half your lunch money in taxes? Allow your country's military to protect your borders?

Do you eat in peace knowing that at any moment someone can kick down your door and take your stuff? And all you can reasonably expect is for the police to show up afterwards?
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-08-28 12:53:49 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Since you don't know me... how did you come to that conclusion?

You're a space serf. There aren't many dots to connect.

Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Since you have no experience in a 0.0 corp... how do you know this?

The first corp I ever joined was a 0.0 corp, and a renter corp at that, although I didn't realize what that meant until right before I left.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#108 - 2013-08-28 12:54:22 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Do you surrender your dignity when you go to work? Pay half your lunch money in taxes? Allow your country's military to protect your borders?

Do you eat in peace knowing that at any moment someone can kick down your door and take your stuff? And all you can reasonably expect is for the police to show up afterwards?

Thank you for accurately comparing my life to renting space.
I'm gonna go sit in a corner and sob into the deductions section of my paycheck.

Side note though. Renting is just offering smaller groups a way to get a taste of null. Once they have null experience and they know that's what they want, they can look at joining a larger group of going it alone, or just staying a renter.
There's nothing bad about people renting space out to people that want it. It's better than the space sitting unused, claimed only for logistics and moons.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#109 - 2013-08-28 12:58:01 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
This is my only character. You can see that I am not in a one-man corp.
I find it ironic that a renter would challenge me to tell him what I have sovereignty over. I have sovereignty over myself. I think that's more than you can say.


Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
The first corp I ever joined was a 0.0 corp, and a renter corp at that, although I didn't realize what that meant until right before I left.

I am SUPER confused. You are in an NPC corp, and always have been.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-08-28 12:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

You're a space serf. There aren't many dots to connect.
Why? I pay nothing directly for being here, although my PI s taxed... at rates lower than Highsec.



Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
The first corp I ever joined was a 0.0 corp, and a renter corp at that, although I didn't realize what that meant until right before I left.
Not all Corp are the same, so what did you realize?
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#111 - 2013-08-28 12:59:30 UTC
Don't even try to argue with Harry Forever. He is covered in 1600mm plates of pure idiocy.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-08-28 13:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Endless moongoo threads lead us to this...


Threads "nerf high sec force them to null" incoming Soon™


Maximillian German wrote:
Don't even try to argue with Harry Forever. He is covered in 1600mm plates of pure idiocy.


You forgot the warp stabs, always more warp stabs Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#113 - 2013-08-28 13:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
William Walker wrote:

So, all the true, elite, gamers are in highsec and all the losers, antisocial, incapable of playing the game are in nullsec? They aren't playing? Then why are they in nullsec?
...



yes thats like it is, the game is played in highsec, check the map, kills the last hour, check it whenever you want, only in highsec something is going on, nullsec is dead, 1-2 ships destroyed per hour spread over 20 systems

players who want some action and want something to happen are in highsec, nullsec is just about grinding up ISK and having a fight once a year

I was not talkinga bout EC_P8R in my other post however it is boring, campers are dying there, because no ships jump through, maybe we just have a different opinion on excitement, just play another game once in a while but don't get a heart attack because of all the things going on...

I think there are too many people dictating the game who are just too slow phased, a new breed of younger people need to take over to bring some action, CCP better hands over the scepter fast
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2013-08-28 13:10:01 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
...Side note though. Renting is....
Not at all what I expected. Basically, pay your rent, down shoot people from your neighborhood, and stay of their lawn. Other than that, do what you want.

The number of dedicated PvP Corps I found here is shocking, but it does make sense.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2013-08-28 13:15:32 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
yes thats like it is, the game is played in highsec, check the map, kills the last hour, check it whenever you want, only in highsec something is going on, nullsec is dead, 1-2 ships destroyed per hour spread over 20 systems
Here's a tip: if you're going to make something up, pick something that isn't trivially falsifiable.

Quote:
better CCP hands over the scepter fast
Just one problem: it's not theirs to hand over.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-08-28 13:19:51 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Do you surrender your dignity when you go to work? Pay half your lunch money in taxes? Allow your country's military to protect your borders?

Do you eat in peace knowing that at any moment someone can kick down your door and take your stuff? And all you can reasonably expect is for the police to show up afterwards?


Is internet spaceships a job?
If you don't pay the government, they put you in a cage, and if you don't get your ass in that cage, they'll murder you. Is there some analog in that to internet spaceships?
I don't "allow" my country's military to do anything. They don't ask. In fact, before, during, or shortly after trying to stop them from doing . . . anything . . . they would probably blow my ass up. They have real spaceships. I do try to exert a measure of control over them by voting. What does this have to do with internet spaceships?

I do actually eat in peace knowing someone can kick my front door in at any moment. Them taking my "stuff" is the least of my worries. My objective in such a scenario is to live long enough to even CALL the police. I'm still wondering what this all has to do with indentured servitude in a massively multiplayer online roleplaying internet spaceships game.

You can't always choose your circumstances in real life. You can choose to be free in EVE or you can choose to be a sycophant or even a slave. See the difference?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#117 - 2013-08-28 13:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Harry Forever wrote:
William Walker wrote:

So, all the true, elite, gamers are in highsec and all the losers, antisocial, incapable of playing the game are in nullsec? They aren't playing? Then why are they in nullsec?
...



yes thats like it is, the game is played in highsec, check the map, kills the last hour, check it whenever you want, only in highsec something is going on, nullsec is dead, 1-2 ships destroyed per hour spread over 20 systems

players who want some action and want something to happen are in highsec, nullsec is just about grinding up ISK and having a fight once a year

I was not talkinga bout EC_P8R in my other post however it is boring, campers are dying there, because no ships jump through, maybe we just have a different opinion on excitement, just play another game once in a while but don't get a heart attack because of all the things going on...

I think there are too many people dictating the game who are just too slow phased, a new breed of younger people need to take over to bring some action, CCP better hands over the scepter fast

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats
Seems there's still thousands of kill happening across 0.0

And nobody will be handing you anything. nobody wants you here. Not even CCP.

Oh.. and Keep your hands off my scepter.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#118 - 2013-08-28 13:27:35 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Is internet spaceships a job?
If you don't pay the government, they put you in a cage, and if you don't get your ass in that cage, they'll murder you. Is there some analog in that to internet spaceships?
I don't "allow" my country's military to do anything. They don't ask. In fact, before, during, or shortly after trying to stop them from doing . . . anything . . . they would probably blow my ass up. They have real spaceships. I do try to exert a measure of control over them by voting. What does this have to do with internet spaceships?

I do actually eat in peace knowing someone can kick my front door in at any moment. Them taking my "stuff" is the least of my worries. My objective in such a scenario is to live long enough to even CALL the police. I'm still wondering what this all has to do with indentured servitude in a massively multiplayer online roleplaying internet spaceships game.

You can't always choose your circumstances in real life. You can choose to be free in EVE or you can choose to be a sycophant or even a slave. See the difference?

But then you pay in game money for in game space. So you are trying here to compare real life to how real live translates to EVE. If you compare real life to waht your characters perception of real life would be, it's the same.
Regardless though, you're an idiot. If you don't want to rent, don't rent. Simple.

Oh and again I point out that you state this is your only char and it's never left an NPC corp, so STFU about things you don't understand nubbin.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2013-08-28 13:28:42 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:

You can't always choose your circumstances in real life. You can choose to be free in EVE or you can choose to be a sycophant or even a slave. See the difference?


Or you could grow up and realise you aren't the best in the world at everything and join a community that allows you to delegate the things you aren't so good at to people who specialise in them.
Din Chao
#120 - 2013-08-28 13:44:08 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Din Chao wrote:
Do you surrender your dignity when you go to work? Pay half your lunch money in taxes? Allow your country's military to protect your borders?

Do you eat in peace knowing that at any moment someone can kick down your door and take your stuff? And all you can reasonably expect is for the police to show up afterwards?


Is internet spaceships a job?
If you don't pay the government, they put you in a cage, and if you don't get your ass in that cage, they'll murder you. Is there some analog in that to internet spaceships?
I don't "allow" my country's military to do anything. They don't ask. In fact, before, during, or shortly after trying to stop them from doing . . . anything . . . they would probably blow my ass up. They have real spaceships. I do try to exert a measure of control over them by voting. What does this have to do with internet spaceships?

I do actually eat in peace knowing someone can kick my front door in at any moment. Them taking my "stuff" is the least of my worries. My objective in such a scenario is to live long enough to even CALL the police. I'm still wondering what this all has to do with indentured servitude in a massively multiplayer online roleplaying internet spaceships game.

You can't always choose your circumstances in real life. You can choose to be free in EVE or you can choose to be a sycophant or even a slave. See the difference?

You used real life terms. "Slavery." "Serfdom." "Indentured servitude." I responded with real life retorts. If you don't want the comparison to be made, then don't make it yourself.