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The Providence region

Author
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#41 - 2011-11-03 15:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Codo Yagari wrote:

You better believe it. Your kind is the scum and the reason why we sometimes shoot neutrals by mistake or for safety in Providence. If your kind didnt exist, peace would reign throughout the galaxy.


War is peace. I'd rather fight for a cause than idly allow evil to happen.

Quote:

Your accusations are like a deadly virus complaining that a standalone sneeze is simply too much and should not be allowed to exist!


Sorry, what? My accusations exist and are propagated because of CVA's actions, and I want the latter to cease so the former would cease too? Yeah, that sounds about right. Please think your retort metaphors through, or don't use them at all.

Quote:

Ah, so you try to deceive the neutral into thinking CVA are evil killers when in fact you were behind the whole incident the whole time, CVA only acting out of a sense of trying to keep order and justice! You are certainly a fool who lacks proper vision. Again you show that murdering an innocent means little to you. When in fact the lives of the innocent is what is most important!


Not "evil killers" but "not the protectors you were looking for". Most people who support CVA's reign in Providence do not do so for Amarrian religious reasons; they do so because they believe CVA offers them some sort of security and safety. The more I prove CVA does not do so, the less support they will have.

And please, spare me the "lives of innocents". He was a capsuleer in a combat vessel hanging around on a jump gate at an exit to Providence. I don't know what he was doing, but I am almost certain "innocence" is not present. Also, are you failing to recall that for us, "death" is just a minor physical inconvenience of being forcibly and instantly transported to a new location, plus the financial inconvenience of ensuring no memory loss? Maybe someone ought to pod you so you'll remember.

Quote:

:Rage about "mega pirate blocks":

Why dont you complain about issues such as these, that are apparently thousands of times worse than any transgression CVA has ever commited???


They are, admittedly, a problem that the galaxy is facing. However, I am content to let them butcher each other in deep null security regions most of the time. The issue really arrives when they go and wreak havoc among honest people in high security and low security space, such as the recent widespread assault on miners. Believe it or not, I do not support those attacks. Neither does Ushra'Khan. We operate under NRDS in all areas of low security and high security space, with exceptions for the Amarr Empire, Ammatar Mandate, and Khanid Kingdom. I have, on occasion, attacked pirates harrassing innocent pilots in our NRDS areas, often to my own detriment due to loss of CONCORD standings as their regulations seem to sometimes be bad at identifying the real threat (suicide gankers, for instance).

That is why I say that if CVA were merely trying to secure Providence for the safety of the public, not bent on extending the Empire's influence, I would support them (their approval of support matters not). But, as it stands, you remain red and we are arguing seriously in a Vaari thread.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Codo Yagari
Cohortes Vigilum
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#42 - 2011-11-03 19:30:04 UTC
Oooh man, I just realized you are an Ushra'Khan, and I've been spending all this energy to try to retain the red thread. Smile

Well, that's OK, I guess no point for me to continue this discussion then. Laters.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#43 - 2011-11-03 19:36:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
That is why I say that if CVA were merely trying to secure Providence for the safety of the public, not bent on extending the Empire's influence, I would support them (their approval of support matters not). But, as it stands, you remain red and we are arguing seriously in a Vaari thread.


A perfect example of the misunderstanding of CVA.

At some point, people need to seperate the bloviations of the verbally faithful, with the action of the Alliance as a whole. And I assure you, despite the words of some of CVA's more vocal members, the "Empire" is often the very least of CVA's concerns or priorities, in what counts....deeds.

CVA has effectively always run Providence as a Free markey extension of ALL Empires (All 4) Space, with CVA is the attempted role of a half-ass psudo CONCORD. And yesPetrus, running a NRDS Region is not just hard, ist's all but impossible, utterly unappreciated by 99% of those who benefit from it, and full of tears and bitter from vastly too many twats who don't understand and don't care what goes into it.

It's like the so-called "Slavery" issue. In all my years in CVA, maybe 4-5 pilots actually engaged in some form of "slave trade", out of the thousands of CVA pilots I've flown with, under or commanded. And they are the expected usual faces, the aggressive Amarrian Zealots, the same folsk proudly proclaiming CVA's ties to the Empire.

Truth is, there is almost no tie between us and the Empire. CVA-PRovidence has been an effective "Khanid Kingdom" since the day I joined CVA, it's never been an extention of any kind, despite the words uttered here, including words I myself have uttered in a previous time.

Truth is, the Empire doesn't WANT CAV to be an extention of theri Empire. Call it politics, jealosy, faith or anything you like, the Empire could have CVA act for it, and they've never, ever, uttered a single word to that end. A few small gestures of overall emaningless effect, but in the whole, the Amarr Empire could give a Slavers stool sample what CVA does or does not do in Providence, less even that they care about what King Khanid does in his space.

Truth is, outside the old jealosies and bitternesses, CVA and U'K have always been vastly more similar that different in supposed goals, especially in deeds, run a neutral friendly NRDS Space, polices as best as possible by the controlling agency who generally tries to kill their own reds, and those they see as pirates.

Whereas Provi could have been where the ancient hatreds of Matari and amarrian could have been overcome through joint support for NRDS Space and Free TRade and Anti-Pirate, CVA and UK spent ages simply killign each toher, generally for sport claimed to be high ideal.

A joke is what it is.

Like so many dealings between immortal capsulleers.

And if we're being honst, the Republic doesn;t much care about UK either.

The time to let loose the shackles of old Empire have come and gone and come again. It;s about time these silly oaths of fealty were waived aside, and the truth of the matter revealed and expressed directly. CVA runs Providence as we see fit, firstly for CVA and it's capsuller members, second for our allies and friends, and thirdly for neutrals who follow our laws as we set them. Same as any and every other null-sec holder, in varying degrees of 1-3 above, most not enagging in the #3 neutral support part.

The Kingdom of Providence, ruled by CVA, is the reality. Antyhing beyond that is pure fantasy, or wishful thinking by eager and hopeful minority of capsuleers. And the truth hurts for many fo them, which is why so few in this little comms channel actually speaks it.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#44 - 2011-11-03 19:37:39 UTC
Oh, and Varrrrriiiii is a silly demented fool, and should be shot repeatedly till dead by any ship that happens to pass him by.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#45 - 2011-11-03 20:21:48 UTC
Alistair Cononach wrote:
Oh, and Varrrrriiiii is a silly demented fool, and should be shot repeatedly till dead by any ship that happens to pass him by.



Lord Vaari, you drunkard.

Im sure my good and close friend, Sir Daedalus will hear of your foul words.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.

Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#46 - 2011-11-03 21:45:55 UTC
Vaari wrote:
Alistair Cononach wrote:
Oh, and Varrrrriiiii is a silly demented fool, and should be shot repeatedly till dead by any ship that happens to pass him by.



Lord Vaari, you drunkard.

Im sure my good and close friend, Sir Daedalus will hear of your foul words.


Shove your "Drunkard" comment sideways, your slaver drool filled buffoon.

I answer to no false prophets, least of all you, you prattling old egomaniac.

I have no worries about Equi hearing your words. I've been his loyal killer for going on 5 years now.

Why if he asked me nicely, I might even shoot you for him.

Hell, he wouldn't even have to ask nicely...
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#47 - 2011-11-03 22:02:39 UTC
Poison tongued boys like you are sorrow of their mothers and shame of their fathers.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-11-03 22:22:06 UTC
Vaari wrote:
Poison tongued boys like you are sorrow of their mothers and shame of their fathers.


I am willing to bet good money if I declared war on Imperial Pharmacy tomorrow, not a single member of CVA would lift a finger to help you.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#49 - 2011-11-03 22:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
I'm impressed, Alistair! Reason, insight, and temper, all from a single CVA member. I'm going to check the temperature in Hell.

If true, the new CVA that you describe would find a multitude of angry Minmatar mollified (those not thirsting for bloody revenge, anyway). However, public communiques do not indicate any sort of disconnection between CVA and the Empire, as you described. For instance, CVA's public portal states:

Quote:
The Curatores Veritatis Alliance (CVA), is an alliance based in Providence and lower Domain.
The alliance is loyal to the Amarr Empire, with their mission to provide security to the area of Domain that the Amarr Navy and CONCORD cannot, as well as extending the Empire into Providence.


I think a lot of things would be different if the public view of CVA -- or at least the one that everyone thinks CVA is -- would be the one you described.

Quote:
And if we're being honst, the Republic doesn;t much care about UK either.


True. We are a splinter military faction composed of those who believe that laying down arms and leaving so many of our brothers in slavery is not acceptable. The Republic itself has disassociated itself from us, and that's fine; we don't want to ruin its politics.

Quote:
Truth is, outside the old jealosies and bitternesses, CVA and U'K have always been vastly more similar that different in supposed goals, especially in deeds, run a neutral friendly NRDS Space, polices as best as possible by the controlling agency who generally tries to kill their own reds, and those they see as pirates.

Whereas Provi could have been where the ancient hatreds of Matari and amarrian could have been overcome through joint support for NRDS Space and Free TRade and Anti-Pirate, CVA and UK spent ages simply killign each toher, generally for sport claimed to be high ideal.

A joke is what it is.

Like so many dealings between immortal capsulleers.


True again. I am a relatively new member of Ushra'Khan (relative to its long history) but I recall that Ushra'Khan and CVA did co-habitate in Providence initially, before Operation Deliverance.

Unless a lot of things change, though, I don't see it happening again. Too much bad blood, on top of the fact that it would require changes of policy and a lot of collaboration, even if what you say about CVA's objective in Providence is true.

It's funny, though, how the actions of one pilot can get a whole alliance set red, but you need the actions of hundreds to set it blue? Human nature, I guess.

Edit: PS: when posting, some proofreading would be nice. It really confused me to see you call CVA "CAV", among other things.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#50 - 2011-11-03 22:29:18 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I am willing to bet good money if I declared war on Imperial Pharmacy tomorrow, not a single member of CVA would lift a finger to help you.


Imagine a small, yelping puppy that thinks it scares everyone with its harmless, yet annoying yips. It believes it is scaring you, and that it is the meanest and scariest thing in the room.

You kick it. Determined that your kick was just a fluke, it gets back up and keeps on yipping.

Story of all Vaari threads.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#51 - 2011-11-03 22:31:13 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Kithrus wrote:

your not getting anything back .


So you admit we were never paid.



No I admit you want something and your not getting it. You have been paid in full receipts were signed I'm not rehashing this. I know its hard to make money but I'm quite sure you can figure out how to get more without double dipping from us.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#52 - 2011-11-03 22:43:18 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I'm impressed, Alistair! Reason, insight, and temper, all from a single CVA member. I'm going to check the temperature in Hell.


I've always been a Black Sheep in this particular herd. It's only of late that I've decided to give the occasional voice publicly on such things.

Quote:
However, public communiques do not indicate any sort of disconnection between CVA and the Empire, as you described. For instance, CVA's public portal states:


Having once been CVA's secondary mouthpiece (for when Hardon wasn;t around, or when truely offensive levels of blovaiation and pompous arrogance were required) I can say this with fully assurance: Words =/= Deed, and Words =/= Truth.

I've given you the truth of things, the story behind all the hot air and words. It's on you (and my brthers in CVA) to do with that truth as they see fit.

Quote:
I think a lot of things would be different if the public view of CVA -- or at least the one that everyone thinks CVA is -- would be the one you described.


I agree.

Quote:
It's funny, though, how the actions of one pilot can get a whole alliance set red, but you need the actions of hundreds to set it blue? Human nature, I guess.


Indeed. Space Politics are some of the coldest there is. Too many hardheaded fools wedded to the past if youa sk me, the type happy to stagnate and rot from within till the surface covers only a black wasted core of what it once held.

At various times, thats been CVA, and knowing what I know, thats been U'K as well at times too.

Quote:
Edit: PS: when posting, some proofreading would be nice. It really confused me to see you call CVA "CAV", among other things.


Understandable, at times my passion overcomes me, and my comms unit, qualtiy thou it are, cannot hope to keep up. My apologies.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-11-04 05:59:34 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
No I admit you want something and your not getting it. You have been paid in full receipts were signed I'm not rehashing this. I know its hard to make money but I'm quite sure you can figure out how to get more without double dipping from us.


Pay the men their godsdamn money. I know honour, courage and integrity are foreign concepts to most Amarrians, but reneging on a business deal is just poor form.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#54 - 2011-11-04 07:36:12 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
No I admit you want something and your not getting it. You have been paid in full receipts were signed I'm not rehashing this. I know its hard to make money but I'm quite sure you can figure out how to get more without double dipping from us.


Pay the men their godsdamn money. I know honour, courage and integrity are foreign concepts to most Amarrians, but reneging on a business deal is just poor form.


Except we have already.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2011-11-04 07:59:39 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Except we have already.


Ah, but whose word do I trust on this one? Do I believe the consistently honourable Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, who have always dealt with me in a fair, transparent and even-handed manner, always paid me what they owe me (and on one occasion tried to pay me when they didn't owe me a cent!) and always treated me with the respect I deserve?

Or do I believe CVA, who have never given me the slightest reason to respect or trust them, even when presented with easy opportunities to do so? In particular, do I trust you, a man who seems to have made it his one purpose in life to prove me wrong every time I think my opinion of the people of Amarr can't sink any lower?

Forgive me if I don't leap to your defence when a long-time ally says you stiffed them out of a considerable sum of money.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Hardin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2011-11-04 11:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hardin
On this subject Alistair is delusional (he actually talks a lot of sense sometimes) and also strangely bitter (Hardon - really?)...

But, if you want to believe his 'truth' about CVA, feel free to do so - just remember that that would make you delusional too...

I may be a 'hard headed fool wedded to the past' but is that not the definition of a true Amarrian?

Abandoning your principles and methods for the sake of expediency may provide some temporary advantage but in the long run those who hold fast to their beliefs through thick and thin are rewarded.

The Amarr Empire itself is a shining example of this... It is the longest standing civilisation in the history of mankind. Other political entities have risen and fallen, burned brightly and then failed - only the Amarr Empire has stood fast - a bastion against anarchy and chaos.

And while its history may be shorter the CVA itself is a good example of how steadfastly sticking to ones principles pays dividends over the longer term. How many capsuleer empires have risen and fallen over the past 8 years. How many still hold space, how many are still remembered? The CVA is one of only a handful of entities in our galaxy that has lasted the course - through good times and bad - and is even now is in the process of reclaiming Providence.

Those entities that are willing to do anything to succeed, willing to backstab any friend, willing to do any deal and take any action (no matter how disreputable) may achieve short term success - BUT without any core beliefs they fracture as soon as times get tough... It is the CVA's focus on NRDS and Providence that gives it its core strength and both of those were born out of loyalty to the Empire.

While some CVA pilots may not be as focused on the Empire as 'hard-headed' old pilots most do understand our history and heritage - and are grateful for the guidance (and lessons) it gives us...

Amarr Victor

Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#57 - 2011-11-04 14:08:56 UTC
Hardin wrote:
On this subject Alistair is delusional (he actually talks a lot of sense sometimes) and also strangely bitter (Hardon - really?)...


Mea Culpa, as has been noted, my comms unit clearly requires an upgrade to Capsuleer Spellcheck v.185.9, as v.184.7 just isn't cutting it at the high speed I froth out my words.

No disrespect to you was intended. As I've said often over the years and am happy to repeat again, you Hardin, are one of the few pilots I've held in ultra-high esteem from day one all the way through today.

I may be a delusional ass, but I have honor and integrity, and I don't intentionally insult those who do not deserve it.

Quote:
Abandoning your principles and methods for the sake of expediency may provide some temporary advantage but in the long run those who hold fast to their beliefs through thick and thin are rewarded.


Principles require action more than words. Aralis once said that to me, in his usual criticism of my words. And he was right, I have to admit. Actions will speak for CVA far louder than your or my words here ever will. As I see it, CVA (and myself) continue to live by teh same principles we always have, I simply disagree as to the level those principles require, or are directly tied into, the formal State of the Amarr Empire, who unquestionably in their actions have expressed no support for our efforts and movement in Providence.

I don't disagree with most of the rest of your words Hardin, but I also don't think what you've said cannot be reconciled with what I've said either. Action counts most. And I know our actions these past few years as well as anyone.

In any event, again, I apologize for the appearance of disrespect.
Hardin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2011-11-04 14:10:25 UTC
Duly noted.

I also agree with much of what you say. The CVA is a broad church...

Amarr Victor

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#59 - 2011-11-04 15:27:07 UTC
Right then, so it was just Alistair being surprisingly reasonable... or as "true Amarrians" would call it, delusional.

Hmm... so where was I... Oh, that's right!

PREPARE FOR YOUR DOOM, FEEBLE SLAVER DOGS.

Heheh.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#60 - 2011-11-04 22:06:26 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Vaari wrote:
Poison tongued boys like you are sorrow of their mothers and shame of their fathers.


I am willing to bet good money if I declared war on Imperial Pharmacy tomorrow, not a single member of CVA would lift a finger to help you.


Im sure you are right. If that would happen, Iphar would totally move to the Providence for the duration of war, since our treaty obligates CVA help us withing their sov space. Moving entirely to Providence is not new tactics to my corporation, it has always been our warden and protector during the times of great crisis and grand wars.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.