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Legion CovOps fix?
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Toryn Atserahs
Section 39
#1 - 2011-10-28 22:55:47 UTC
Dear CCP,

Any chance that the covert ops subsystem of the legion will get fixed? It's currently broken. A simple damage bonus would go quite a long ways towards making the ship actually worth flying.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-29 14:46:06 UTC
While I love the Legion, and consider it very "worth flying," the cov-ops sub is pretty terrible.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Goose99
#3 - 2011-10-29 15:01:56 UTC
Cov-ops sub is supposed to be gimpy. Working as intended. The ~400 dps is no worse than other covops fit t3s.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-29 15:47:34 UTC
Lasers are supposed to do much less DPS than blasters. If this cloaky-T3 situation was replicated elsewhere, blasters might actually have a role.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-10-29 19:59:00 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Cov-ops sub is supposed to be gimpy. Working as intended. The ~400 dps is no worse than other covops fit t3s.


give me a viable fitting little troll that can do 400ish dps and ill believe you untill then the legion as a whole is gimped
Aamrr
#6 - 2011-10-29 20:56:25 UTC
Quite. Even with faction multifrequency, 3 faction heat sinks, and the extra turret engineering subsystem, the Legion tops out at 363 DPS. With scorch, that drops to 289 -- with an optimal that barely reaches to point range.

By comparison, a Tengu will project 372 DPS to 73 km using scourge fury. T2 HAMs with faction ammo will put out 418 DPS.
Aessaya
Independent treasure hunters
#7 - 2011-10-29 22:03:08 UTC
Not mentioning the Tengu pilot's ability to choose any damage type according to situation. Yet Covops subsystems aren't supposed to be DPS monsters.

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2011-10-30 01:54:05 UTC
Aessaya wrote:
Not mentioning the Tengu pilot's ability to choose any damage type according to situation.


It's amazing how often people forget that the Tengu covops sub gets a RoF bonus and not a kinetic damage bonus.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#9 - 2011-10-30 02:36:08 UTC
The legion's cov ops sub is indeed broken, the other 3 all have some sort of damage bonus associated with it but not the legion. A typical cov ops fit on any of the others will give 400-500 dps with faction damage mods and a pretty ordinary looking fit (ie DCII, 2x EANM, 1x 1600mm plate). The legion however struggles to get over 350dps and in most fits, doesn't even break 200. I would go as far to say that if you are using lasers on a cov ops legion, you're doing it wrong. You're better off with AC's as they do equal dps, have vastly superior tracking, have a 100% cap reduction bonus (since they don't use cap obviously) and have selectable damage type. The range on them is slightly inferior but not enough to matter on most configs.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Aessaya
Independent treasure hunters
#10 - 2011-10-30 17:04:34 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Aessaya wrote:
Not mentioning the Tengu pilot's ability to choose any damage type according to situation.


It's amazing how often people forget that the Tengu covops sub gets a RoF bonus and not a kinetic damage bonus.

This is exactly what i meant, lol :)

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.
Comy 1
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-10-30 17:14:00 UTC
Cloaky neut Legion best Legion!

However I agree, I feel ashamed of even thinking about bringing a covert dps Legion to my wormhole gank fleets.
Goose99
#12 - 2011-10-31 00:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Cov-ops sub is supposed to be gimpy. Working as intended. The ~400 dps is no worse than other covops fit t3s.


give me a viable fitting little troll that can do 400ish dps and ill believe you untill then the legion as a whole is gimped


Someone called Troll calling other ppl troll.Big smile

You load faction multi instead of scorch, at which point it outranges ~450 dps covops proteus, or outdmgs ~350 dps covops tengu. That's covops for you. Your poison - pick it.Cool
Aamrr
#13 - 2011-10-31 00:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
As I've already pointed out, a 5-turret triple faction heat sink multi Legion does 363 DPS -- the Tengu does 372 at literally 10x the range.

How exactly is that Legion outdamaging the Tengu again?
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#14 - 2011-10-31 18:58:59 UTC
I get good dps from my covert ops legion. Maybe up yor skills 394 without overheat!

[Legion, covert op ]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Energy Burst Aerator II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Kenshin Tzestu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-31 23:17:50 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Quite. Even with faction multifrequency, 3 faction heat sinks, and the extra turret engineering subsystem, the Legion tops out at 363 DPS. With scorch, that drops to 289 -- with an optimal that barely reaches to point range.

By comparison, a Tengu will project 372 DPS to 73 km using scourge fury. T2 HAMs with faction ammo will put out 418 DPS.



This is exactly it. The legion is pretty much broken.



Kenshin Tzestu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-10-31 23:20:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshin Tzestu
Skelee VI wrote:
I get good dps from my covert ops legion. Maybe up yor skills 394 without overheat!

[Legion, covert op ]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Energy Burst Aerator II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I




You posted a fit for a half a billion ISK cruiser that has 34k EHP, no active tank and still has less than 400 DPS? I can't tell if you're trolling or just insane.

A (c)Loki can have 95k ehp and deal out ~450+ DPS...and it can switch damage types at will. How does your legion compete with that?

A cloaked Tengu can deal 400 DPS out to 70+ km and still have a massive tank (active or buffer...and the passive regen on a buffer tank is nothing to laugh at). How does your legion compare?

It doesn't.
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-11-01 01:46:07 UTC
Im going to take a stab at this; however, I might be wrong.

Why not try using a cloaky neut setup? even if the dps is minimal youll most likely be able to shut off the prop mode to get in MF range, giving you like what? 300 dps? and from the bonuses of a neuted out target can most likely drop a heatsinks and TE for some buffer.

I've never actually flown one though...just an idea!
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-11-01 02:23:09 UTC
river Zateki wrote:
Im going to take a stab at this; however, I might be wrong.

Why not try using a cloaky neut setup? even if the dps is minimal youll most likely be able to shut off the prop mode to get in MF range, giving you like what? 300 dps? and from the bonuses of a neuted out target can most likely drop a heatsinks and TE for some buffer.

I've never actually flown one though...just an idea!



why not using a pilgrim that is like 5x cheaper and can actually do some damage thru drones instead?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Kenshin Tzestu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-11-01 04:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshin Tzestu
Grimpak wrote:
river Zateki wrote:
Im going to take a stab at this; however, I might be wrong.

Why not try using a cloaky neut setup? even if the dps is minimal youll most likely be able to shut off the prop mode to get in MF range, giving you like what? 300 dps? and from the bonuses of a neuted out target can most likely drop a heatsinks and TE for some buffer.

I've never actually flown one though...just an idea!



why not using a pilgrim that is like 5x cheaper and can actually do some damage thru drones instead?



Pilgrim can also easily outdamage a neut legion and can switch damage types through drones...and as Grimpak noted, costs a lot less.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#20 - 2011-11-01 04:44:13 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
why not using a pilgrim that is like 5x cheaper and can actually do some damage thru drones instead?


A neut legion can pack twice as much neut as the Pilgrim and the armor of a heavy battleship. My neut fit gets 170k ehp, FAR more than my Pilgrim. Also, you can greatly increase your sensor strength over that of the Pilgrim, making the legion nigh unjammable.

The neut legion is a fleet ship that can be used to great effect. I built mine for the purpose of busting ECM ships by decloaking right on top of them and then grabbing and neuting them without being jammed into letting them get away. It's as much a psych weapon as anything: ECMs are supposed to be these great force multipliers, and when a single ship incapacitates them fleets tend to lose some nerve. A Pilgrim can't do that.

Recon ships aren't DPS monsters, and covops T3s shouldn't be either. Just like the recons vary widely between races, so the T3s have a wide range of build philosophies. If you want cloaky DPS, go for a different T3. The Tengu can't hope to compete with the legion on neuts and its own jamming subsystem is horrible compared to the falcon. All it has going for it is missiles.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
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