Intergalactic Summit

I assume the source material for this was from a non-neutral perspective, while intriguing to see things from a Caldari point of view, the omission of a few details and false presumptions into the perception of certain individuals or society at large questions the overarching accuracy.

Accurate according to a certain point of view, but that serves little more purpose than being educational propaganda to condition a certain way of thinking. The Federation also has it's own version of such, it's equally inaccurate and paints a different picture of the same conflict. The truth is somewhere in between the two, and neither side smells of the rose petals they try to cover themselves in.

And the ignorance really lies in the fact that there's a difference between patriots and nationalists. Over the years he's shown himself to be little more than a State variant of someone like Alain Octirant, if you'll forgive the slightly dated reference. If this was an example of religion and not nationality he'd be dubbed a fanatical zealot. I don't question his loyalty or service to the State, I do question his ability to look beyond the very short sighted view he clings to without question despite, the bias nature of it's source.

The fact Vikarion has referred to himself as a "Caldari Nationalist" before is, of course, by the by.


I'm not looking to exonerate the past of the Federation, multiple steps taken were wrong and ethically abhorrent. Nor am I trying to shift the entirety of the blame onto the State, no one side can have the finger pointed at them and say "Everything that was wrong in this, was wrong because of you." But for the sake of not subjecting people to one sided bullshit bias accounts of history, I don't tolerate half truth and biased renditions of history. Ignorance only promotes further ignorance, and poor education on the mistakes of the past is never going to give hope for peace in the future.

That said, peace requires egos to be put aside across the board, and not to simply blame "the fault" on "them." Speaking of egos, popular opinion elected the UNATS, got a man publicly immolated, and put Tibus Heth in power, I'd rather gather my own opinion on matters. But then again, it's my nature to form my own opinion, rather than have them dictated by questionably accurate sources.

Mr. Marellus,

I perhaps differ from yourself in that where human affairs are concerned I hold to the view that perception is reality, and as such have sought to provide my own and perhaps what might be said to be a Caldari perspective. Consider it that I think it best to hold to dialectics instead of debate when discussing history if only in that debate would imply that human beings always operate under the principles of logical prepositions or can always be predicted to behave arbitrarily to the dictates of a formally axiomatic system.

Human feelings and human failings will always make it impossible to do so.

Now, if you believe I am seeking to conduct a debate on this topic, I am not insofar that I am not implying that the view and opinions I have presented are right and that of others is wrong. I have provided my thoughts in order to further understanding, not to deny it. If both sides in the Independence War did not feel they were justified in their cause, and just as unwilling to compromise on their positions perhaps history would have taken a different path.

Caldari and Gallente did know peace for centuries. We were once able to develop the warp drive together. To escape the confines of our solar system together with the joint project to restore the VH-451 stargate. We did know fellowship and mutual respect once.

To me, that relationship and accord was broken when what I see as nothing more than greed and a desire for power drove some men and women to try and use the Federation to serve their own interests to the detriment of the Caldari. As to whether or not we return to such a state of mutual accord again is really anyone's guess but the wounds will always run deep.

Addendum: I might even note that it feels like history is repeating itself once again. From my point of view at least, the State has little need to continue prosecuting the current conflict with the Federation beyond the desire of the Roden Administration to continue committing Federal military assets to seizing State territory out of what appears to be a need to play military strong man to keep his domestic political hopes alive.

Well, I'm sure if hypothetically President Roden was elected for the next twenty years to continue the policies you so disagree with I would think that's an indication that the Federation and democracy are simply working as intended to represent the will of the people, no?

How fortunate that as a capsuleer you can in a sense opt out of participation in a Federal Administration you disagree with. I do not think such options have been available historically or at present with the same degree of ease.

So are you stating that CVA is not, in fact, loyally submissive to the will of the Empress?

In real world (not propaganda) terms, CVA NEVER WAS.

CVA has build what in any other situation would be called an Independant Nation State, managed and controlled vy CVA along the REAL guiding principle, NRDS Engagement Rules.

Yes, CVA, including myself, have always held a form of stated verbal loyalty to the Empire from which some of us decended.

In reality, those are words, not deeds. And Deeds speak FAR louder than words.

CVA runs no "Slave Markets". CVA performs no "Slave Raids". Apart from being an item allowed by the market to be placed for sale, there is NO emphasis on slaves, Matari or the like in providence, and for most of the time I've lived and flown there, there never was beyond talking points and the like.

What CVA has always truly stood for, and always truly done in DEED, is to control and manage a region based upon the NRDS principles for which our core has always stood, an open region to one and all as long as you do not kill without just cause.

I'm sure some faithful Amarrian whelp in CVA will surely come and tell me hopw wrong I am, but I've been here longer than most, been in the room at the highest level of CVA leadership, and known what CVA was doing and why, at it's core.

And it's never been "For Amarr" in deed. It's been "for NRDS, peace and freedom".

Words vs. Deeds. A State of our Own, friend to Empire, sure, but NOT the Empire, and the Empire has made it VERY VERY clear they do not view us as part of them either.

It would be quite a sad statement if it were so. Even though every bit of logic I have says that democracy is an endeavor doomed to failure, I have always had hope that the Gallente Federation would prove that the mass of thinking minds is greater than the individual fascist leader. In the end, it simply seems to turn the Gallente themselves into that fascist leader. People who make decisions in groups rarely choose what is right, logical, or practical. They sway towards the popular. Therefore, people who are elected aren't necessarily the best administrators or the best educated to lead, they are often the most charismatic.

Facing the realities in my own people's corner of space, I doubt a democracy of Ammarians would have elected the current Empress. She would have been thrown out after the Emancipation. They would be calling for her impeachment for not immediately attacking the Matari. Even if that state of affairs changes, one could say she is permitted to make unpopular, but correct, decisions.

The Federal system does not seem to allow for this. At best, it means that the Federation can be hijacked by the charismatic and well-connected by brainwashing the population. At worst, it means that the Federation may prove that we, as a species, are naturally violent and evil.

If the Gallente cannot prove that the sum of all humanity tends towards peace and understanding, and instead acts on nationalistic pride, I think I might be quite disappointed. I am prepared for power-hungry fools in my own Empire to make rash decisions for personal gain. I do try to think that the median of men is a bit better than that.

In which case, I do hope democracy doesn't prove that success can be paved with the worst of men's intentions.

It was considered and discussed but to my memory never actually happened.




See, while Roden enjoys a popularity, I don't believe he holds the same levels of popularity that Foiritan did when there were calls to amend the constitution. Roden has his detractors and certainly doesn't reach out to the Doves, not in the way Foirtain could work with the Hawks.

He certainly has the support of the vultures, but it's whether he can be more appealing to the Magpies and hold enough media control for the Ostritch support that will win him another term.


The biggest issue Roden faces is he lacks a campaign now. His election was on the basis of removing the Shiigeru and the Caldari Navy presence in Luminaire. He's done that, he'll need a new focus now.

Too short term, he'll probably accomplish that in the run in to the elections for political points.

No, he's going to need something that he can say is his "vision" for the next few years, needs to be something that realistically will drag on.

It would appear your memory is flawed because the following article indicates Suoro Foiritain was re-elected two years after a constitutional referendum was held abolishing the previous single term limit for the Federal Presidency as outlined here.

So yes, hypothetically, it's still constitutional for President Roden to serve for as many terms as he is elected by the people is it not?