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Alignment while Mining

Author
Celthon Drakken
#1 - 2013-08-21 18:50:43 UTC
Little confusion here regarding being "Aligned" while I'm mining.

My understanding of being Aligned with a destination/point is that my ship is moving toward that spot, so my speed will be at 75% or greater, in preparation for Warping out.

If I pick a spot, and choose the "Align To" option, my ship starts heading in that direction, but I need to stay within distance of the Asteroids I'm mining...so how does a Miner align with an escape route/spot? Or will orbiting the Asteroid I'm mining help with the jump to warp since I'll be moving (but not always pointing in the right direction, since I'd be orbiting)?

Should I choose the "Align To" option, let the ship get it's heading, and then stop it while mining...at least that way it is pointed in correct direction?

Thank you.
Death Reign
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-08-21 19:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Death Reign
Celthon Drakken wrote:
Little confusion here regarding being "Aligned" while I'm mining.

My understanding of being Aligned with a destination/point is that my ship is moving toward that spot, so my speed will be at 75% or greater, in preparation for Warping out.

If I pick a spot, and choose the "Align To" option, my ship starts heading in that direction, but I need to stay within distance of the Asteroids I'm mining...so how does a Miner align with an escape route/spot? Or will orbiting the Asteroid I'm mining help with the jump to warp since I'll be moving (but not always pointing in the right direction, since I'd be orbiting)?

Should I choose the "Align To" option, let the ship get it's heading, and then stop it while mining...at least that way it is pointed in correct direction?

Thank you.


YEs, being aligned while mining means facing the destination while stopped. It cuts precious seconds off the align time as your ship no longer needs to turn AND speed up. Now you just have to speed up.

Orbiting doesnt help as much as you will likely need to turn, which will slow you down, and then speed up again. Heaven forbid you get stuck on your asteroid.
Celthon Drakken
#3 - 2013-08-21 19:04:55 UTC
Thank you very much.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-21 19:08:53 UTC
For the purpose of aligning it doesn't matter what direction you're facing. It will take you the same amount of time to align out as it will to turn & align out. If you're mining in high sec then you should orbit to make it more difficult to bump you. If you're mining in low/null/wh then being aligned is more important. Take friends. Have everyone double web everyone and align. That way you will be ready to warp out while moving at a rate that allows mining.

I have also heard of people making 4 off grid bookmarks around an asteroid belt then switching from roid to roid as they move in a square around the belt, aligning to each bm.

Good luck with that
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-08-21 19:33:12 UTC
Death Reign wrote:
Celthon Drakken wrote:
Little confusion here regarding being "Aligned" while I'm mining.

My understanding of being Aligned with a destination/point is that my ship is moving toward that spot, so my speed will be at 75% or greater, in preparation for Warping out.

If I pick a spot, and choose the "Align To" option, my ship starts heading in that direction, but I need to stay within distance of the Asteroids I'm mining...so how does a Miner align with an escape route/spot? Or will orbiting the Asteroid I'm mining help with the jump to warp since I'll be moving (but not always pointing in the right direction, since I'd be orbiting)?

Should I choose the "Align To" option, let the ship get it's heading, and then stop it while mining...at least that way it is pointed in correct direction?

Thank you.


YEs, being aligned while mining means facing the destination while stopped. It cuts precious seconds off the align time as your ship no longer needs to turn AND speed up. Now you just have to speed up.


That isn't quite true. The server sees you as a sphere when you aren't moving. The graphics of you turning are just that, graphics.
Sylvester Tweet
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-08-21 19:45:24 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:


That isn't quite true. The server sees you as a sphere when you aren't moving. The graphics of you turning are just that, graphics.


^ what this person said. Anything else is just wrong.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2013-08-21 19:53:11 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Death Reign wrote:
Celthon Drakken wrote:
Little confusion here regarding being "Aligned" while I'm mining.

My understanding of being Aligned with a destination/point is that my ship is moving toward that spot, so my speed will be at 75% or greater, in preparation for Warping out.

If I pick a spot, and choose the "Align To" option, my ship starts heading in that direction, but I need to stay within distance of the Asteroids I'm mining...so how does a Miner align with an escape route/spot? Or will orbiting the Asteroid I'm mining help with the jump to warp since I'll be moving (but not always pointing in the right direction, since I'd be orbiting)?

Should I choose the "Align To" option, let the ship get it's heading, and then stop it while mining...at least that way it is pointed in correct direction?

Thank you.


YEs, being aligned while mining means facing the destination while stopped. It cuts precious seconds off the align time as your ship no longer needs to turn AND speed up. Now you just have to speed up.


That isn't quite true. The server sees you as a sphere when you aren't moving. The graphics of you turning are just that, graphics.

This. It's amazing how that myth continues to linger despite being proven untrue multiple times.
Anuminas Alland
Aspergus Carebearnaise
#8 - 2013-08-21 20:02:18 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
For the purpose of aligning it doesn't matter what direction you're facing. It will take you the same amount of time to align out as it will to turn & align out. If you're mining in high sec then you should orbit to make it more difficult to bump you. If you're mining in low/null/wh then being aligned is more important.


I must respectfully disagree; when mining one should always navigate far clear of the rocks and align to something -- a station, a gate, a safe spot, whatever. Orbiting an asteroid puts the miner at a high risk of getting stuck when trying to warp out in an emergency.

To the OP, if you see an unknown combat ship appear on grid with you in an asteroid belt, it's a good idea to think about leaving. ("On grid" means that they show up in your overview.) Being nice and clear of the rocks in the belt, and aligned to a destination, makes that a lot easier.
Celthon Drakken
#9 - 2013-08-21 20:24:52 UTC
Thank you everyone for your replies/information.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#10 - 2013-08-21 20:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Assuming you are in a barge/Exhumer and assuming you are in high sec, then alining is unimportant.

The concern should be gank protection. You will rarely warp out before you are locked down so think more of a gank tank.

Forget boosters. They are a waste of time. The two most important skills you can have, in my opinion, are shield upgrades and tactical shield manipulation. The only thing between you being in your ship and being in a pod when it comes to ganks is effective hit points. That means maximum shield extension and minimum loss of HP through bleeding into armor.

Secondary to those two skills are skillls to boost your use of modules that help with passive compensations. (EM/thermic/kinetic/explosive)

I can be ganked in a .5 by five skilled pilots, but that's so rare as to be negligible. Most of the time, it's me who's looting the ganker's wrecks rather than the other way around.

Edit: And for God's sake, don't undock without a suitcase fit and running.

Edit 2: Gank Tank

Mr Epeen Cool
James Hakkar
Pro Synergy
#11 - 2013-08-21 21:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: James Hakkar
Anuminas Alland wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
For the purpose of aligning it doesn't matter what direction you're facing. It will take you the same amount of time to align out as it will to turn & align out. If you're mining in high sec then you should orbit to make it more difficult to bump you. If you're mining in low/null/wh then being aligned is more important.


I must respectfully disagree; when mining one should always navigate far clear of the rocks and align to something -- a station, a gate, a safe spot, whatever. Orbiting an asteroid puts the miner at a high risk of getting stuck when trying to warp out in an emergency.


It's not just getting stuck, when moving in the wrong direction (which happens when you orbit something..) it take longer to get in warp then when you were stationairy. Orbitting the roid prevents bumping though, but you shouldnt mine afk anyway.

Best way to mine relatively safe:

1. Pick a system that is not busy. 50-100 people in local is busy.
2. Open your d-scan and scan regular for incoming ships.
3. Watch local for known gangers (
- search on eve-kill.net for recent kills in your system and add those people or corporation who do ganking to your contacts - bad standing. So you see them in local when they enter.
4. Be stationairy and make sure the direction you want to escape-warp to is clear.
5. Tank your mining ship.

Generally keep your eyes open.

Want to earn a [u]lot[/u]** of money as a new player? Join channel: **Pro Synergy Salvage the leftovers from veteran missioners and get paid in large amounts. 

Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-21 23:56:11 UTC
That is a fair point about getting stuck on rocks. I don't have any experience with mining so I don't really know how the barges handle. I have been stuck in belts while trying to maneuver battlecruiser or even cruisers through the belts though, which is why I always opt for manual flight. Even in a frig, if you unexpectedly bounce in the wrong direction your transversal can drip to zero at a most inopportune moment.

Not really sure if manual flight is relevant to miners though?
Anuminas Alland
Aspergus Carebearnaise
#13 - 2013-08-22 00:21:22 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
That is a fair point about getting stuck on rocks. I don't have any experience with mining so I don't really know how the barges handle. I have been stuck in belts while trying to maneuver battlecruiser or even cruisers through the belts though, which is why I always opt for manual flight. Even in a frig, if you unexpectedly bounce in the wrong direction your transversal can drip to zero at a most inopportune moment.

Not really sure if manual flight is relevant to miners though?


It is. Not as much as it is for combat pilots, obviously, but they need to know how to do basic things like how to fly up, down etc.

But yes, what you have experienced in belts happens to mining ships too. You never, ever want to plop your Venture/barge/exhumer/Orca right down amongst all the rocks. Might as well sign your own death sentence. I learned the hard way when my trial character took her Venture into a belt in a 0.5 system. I knew nothing about how to tank, of course. I was not AFK, but I got attacked by three Blood Raiders, and I underestimated how strong they'd be so I waited too long. Finally I realized that I needed to warp out, but then I got stuck bouncing off asteroids, and, well, that did not end well. :P
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#14 - 2013-08-22 01:01:34 UTC
If you're not moving, you're not aligned. Being stationary and pointing in the direction you want to go in has no effect on how fast you get into warp.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2013-08-22 01:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
The act of aligning to a celestial and then coming to a complete halt is known as "passive alignment." The incorrect assumption is that being pointed in the right direction will save time when warping out. This is incorrect: you still have to accelerate to 75% of maximum velocity, with ship at a standstill considered by the physics engine to be pointing in no direction/all directions. Moving at 1m/s in the wrong direction won't significantly impact your align time.

Rather than tanking your ship, you can fit for maximum yield and simply warp out when you see a combat ship on D-Scan anywhere within a million kilometres. This distance buys you approximately 15 seconds in which to make yourself scarce.

If you opt for tank, fly a skiff and orbit something at large enough range that you get to maximum speed. The speed of the skiff means that it will be difficult for turret-based gankers to do full damage to you. The skiff is also agile enough that the 15 seconds warning you get from D-Scan is enough to be gone by the time the combat ships land on grid and are able to get a lock, even if you re facing the wrong direction. D-Scan is laggy, so be sure to acknowledge the need to react quickly when ships do appear.

Do not fly an Orca in belt during the interdiction. The gankers will simply fly in a fleet of torpedo boats (ravens and stealth bombers for example) and finish you off in a couple of salvos. It's not about profit from ganking for these people: for them it is about pretty explosions and tear harvesting, and they have money to fritter away on suicide raven fleets.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2013-08-22 06:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Another option is Webs and a friend.

Duel each other, apply webs, and enjoy mining fully aligned to a safespot (to avoid being stuck outside a station with a weapons timer) at something less than 10m/s. If you see a gank fleet landing on grid, simply fleetwarp to the safespot.


Death Reign wrote:

YEs, being aligned while mining means facing the destination while stopped. It cuts precious seconds off the align time as your ship no longer needs to turn AND speed up. Now you just have to speed up.

Orbiting doesnt help as much as you will likely need to turn, which will slow you down, and then speed up again. Heaven forbid you get stuck on your asteroid.


Passive align is a myth. It's such a ridiculously easy to disprove myth that it's almost incredible how strongly it persists.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2013-08-22 14:38:46 UTC
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-08-22 15:06:35 UTC
At a dead stop, the direction your ship is pointing is irrelevant. But if you've got any base velocity at all, it becomes critically important, because if you're moving in the wrong direction, your ship has to get its velocity vector in line with its warp target, which can take a substantial length of time for a slow barge, especially since the navigation system doesn't choose an efficient way of shedding your sideways velocity, but just points at your target and goes full throttle, leaving you moving at an angle to your target for a while.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt

Forum Damsel
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-08-22 15:09:40 UTC
I have been timing (with a stop watch) the differance between 'non-aligned' and 'aligned' warping with my retriever. I have not found more than a second and a half differance.

I consider that well within the margin of error when the times measured are a minimum of 16 seconds.

I align each time I mine, anyway.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-08-22 15:16:03 UTC
Forum Damsel wrote:
I have been timing (with a stop watch) the differance between 'non-aligned' and 'aligned' warping with my retriever. I have not found more than a second and a half differance.
Surely you're doing it wrong or you didn't understand what aligning means.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]

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