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"Game dev harassment eroding industry"
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Finnigan McGillicutty
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-08-23 03:22:01 UTC
One of the awesome things about video games is that they provide a place to try on different identities, behaviors, and value systems without fear of real-world consequences. The problem isn't that people behave in these transgressive ways toward one another within the context of a game: the problem is when those behaviors cross over into real life.

I've been a game developer for just shy of a decade, and I've seen -- and been on the receiving end of -- the kind of real-world harassment described in the article. It's *completely* different from the kinds of in-game behaviors victims often whine about on these forums.

It's one thing to gank a miner, or bust a mission runner, or scam a noob. Those behaviors are confined to the game, and they're part of living out that alternate identity, and I fully support them.

It's another thing entirely to receive **** and death threats, targeted at yourself or your loved ones. For this, there must be a zero-tolerance policy by everyone in the community: devs, gamers, and press alike.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#42 - 2013-08-23 08:23:39 UTC
Finnigan McGillicutty wrote:
One of the awesome things about video games is that they provide a place to try on different identities, behaviors, and value systems without fear of real-world consequences. The problem isn't that people behave in these transgressive ways toward one another within the context of a game: the problem is when those behaviors cross over into real life.

I've been a game developer for just shy of a decade, and I've seen -- and been on the receiving end of -- the kind of real-world harassment described in the article. It's *completely* different from the kinds of in-game behaviors victims often whine about on these forums.

It's one thing to gank a miner, or bust a mission runner, or scam a noob. Those behaviors are confined to the game, and they're part of living out that alternate identity, and I fully support them.

It's another thing entirely to receive **** and death threats, targeted at yourself or your loved ones. For this, there must be a zero-tolerance policy by everyone in the community: devs, gamers, and press alike.


With videogames promoting competition rather than cooperation, with the defeat of a fellow human being being the ultimate goal, games are calling for being taken as more than games. If you're just playing it, you're not taking it seriously enough, and if you take it seriously enoguh the artiifical divide between game behavior and real behavior just pops.

We DO NOT have specific mindsets or emotions for playing. Everyhting we feel and do in a game is real at the foundations of the brain. This is why we love playing; because the rewards are real -just the consequences of defeat aren't, at least in principle. Because gmes do tend to make defeat harm so they're more "real" (and then, once again, the artificial divide between game and reality pops).

By promoting competition and defeat of fellow human beings, games ask to be ready to compete against, and defeat, the very creators of the game. But then, games that reward violence and cruelty, would not be prone to attract people who just talks their issues out in a friendly manner, would they?

And then, also is the issue on how well does developer-player communication serve the developers' purposes. Just look at Mech Warrior Online, it's three weeks from launch and the community has essentially declared it dead on arrival after rmonths of intense and satisfactory cooperation.... and you bet the developers-with-a-name are getting truckloads of written hate by every mean.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2013-08-23 10:25:30 UTC
It's at least a start:

Huffington Post to ban anonymous comments

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Alpheias
Farmhouse.
Fraternity.
#44 - 2013-08-23 10:34:58 UTC
As a strong proponent for free speech, I do think it is wrong to outright ban the anonymous voices from voicing their opinion. That said, threats made under the guise of the anonymous has been pretty much the daily affair for a very long time now that it is a unfortunate but necessary move to protect people from the real nutjobs.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#45 - 2013-08-23 10:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Alpheias wrote:
As a strong proponent for free speech, I do think it is wrong to outright ban the anonymous voices from voicing their opinion. That said, threats made under the guise of the anonymous has been pretty much the daily affair for a very long time now that it is a unfortunate but necessary move to protect people from the real nutjobs.



I used to agree, but if you don't have the guts to stand up for what you believe in, you don't deserve to be heard.

No reason for anonymity except if statements to be made could endanger your life.

Highly unlikely on a game forum.

The people on the receiving end (Devs in this case) are already not anonymous. This provides balance.

(early AM typos)


addendum: It's horrifying of course, but I'm willing to sacrifice a principle I believe in if it's determined that humanity in general cannot handle a particular principle without abusing it in order to damage others in some way.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#46 - 2013-08-23 11:55:53 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
As a strong proponent for free speech, I do think it is wrong to outright ban the anonymous voices from voicing their opinion. That said, threats made under the guise of the anonymous has been pretty much the daily affair for a very long time now that it is a unfortunate but necessary move to protect people from the real nutjobs.



I used to agree, but if you don't have the guts to stand up for what you believe in, you don't deserve to be heard.

No reason for anonymity except if statements to be made could endanger your life.

Highly unlikely on a game forum.

The people on the receiving end (Devs in this case) are already not anonymous. This provides balance.

(early AM typos)


addendum: It's horrifying of course, but I'm willing to sacrifice a principle I believe in if it's determined that humanity in general cannot handle a particular principle without abusing it in order to damage others in some way.


Not so horrible. Principles and rights may clash and collide, and then prioritization happens. Will spare examples to not turn this into a political debate, but Law is full of such cases (specially in Europe, where countries have the law coded in a single Code and conflicts are usually pre-sorted by the Code, leaving limited to no room to judges).

Relating anonymous threats, this is a non-issue. The right to not be harrassed prevails over the right to be an anonymous jerk.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-08-24 15:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Inokuma Yawara
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
As a strong proponent for free speech, I do think it is wrong to outright ban the anonymous voices from voicing their opinion. That said, threats made under the guise of the anonymous has been pretty much the daily affair for a very long time now that it is a unfortunate but necessary move to protect people from the real nutjobs.



I used to agree, but if you don't have the guts to stand up for what you believe in, you don't deserve to be heard.

No reason for anonymity except if statements to be made could endanger your life.

Highly unlikely on a game forum.

The people on the receiving end (Devs in this case) are already not anonymous. This provides balance.

(early AM typos)


addendum: It's horrifying of course, but I'm willing to sacrifice a principle I believe in if it's determined that humanity in general cannot handle a particular principle without abusing it in order to damage others in some way.


Not so horrible. Principles and rights may clash and collide, and then prioritization happens. Will spare examples to not turn this into a political debate, but Law is full of such cases (specially in Europe, where countries have the law coded in a single Code and conflicts are usually pre-sorted by the Code, leaving limited to no room to judges).

Relating anonymous threats, this is a non-issue. The right to not be harrassed prevails over the right to be an anonymous jerk.



Benjamin Franklin said it best.

Paraphrased: "A people willing to sacrifice Freedom for the sake of Security deserves neither." The exact quote is, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Anonymity is very important, even in a "free society", people are retaliated against for their beliefs and political ideals, by other people. In other societies, it is the government who hunts you down, arrests and otherwise threatens your safety. Whether an ideal, or belief is uttered openly or anonymously, the essence of that ideal or belief impacts those who hear or read it. When you fear getting turned in to your government for comments you make for policies that government practices, then anonymity is what is needed to make those comments heard. Taking anonymity away will only serve to silence those who believe that they can be retaliated against, and will cause them to be silenced - even in a "free society" where one fears their boss, their neighbors, their fellow church goers, or even, the Internet forum posters.

Consider, for example, how many post with alts knowing that what they post can affect them in-game? In-game, comments you make can be retaliated against with a gank, or worse - a bounty... A little humor, but seriously believe that anonymity is an essential tool for democracy and freedom of speech.

EDIT: I like this version too. “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#48 - 2013-08-24 16:59:03 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
As a strong proponent for free speech, I do think it is wrong to outright ban the anonymous voices from voicing their opinion. That said, threats made under the guise of the anonymous has been pretty much the daily affair for a very long time now that it is a unfortunate but necessary move to protect people from the real nutjobs.



I used to agree, but if you don't have the guts to stand up for what you believe in, you don't deserve to be heard.

No reason for anonymity except if statements to be made could endanger your life.

Highly unlikely on a game forum.

The people on the receiving end (Devs in this case) are already not anonymous. This provides balance.

(early AM typos)


addendum: It's horrifying of course, but I'm willing to sacrifice a principle I believe in if it's determined that humanity in general cannot handle a particular principle without abusing it in order to damage others in some way.


Not so horrible. Principles and rights may clash and collide, and then prioritization happens. Will spare examples to not turn this into a political debate, but Law is full of such cases (specially in Europe, where countries have the law coded in a single Code and conflicts are usually pre-sorted by the Code, leaving limited to no room to judges).

Relating anonymous threats, this is a non-issue. The right to not be harrassed prevails over the right to be an anonymous jerk.



Benjamin Franklin said it best.

Paraphrased: "A people willing to sacrifice Freedom for the sake of Security deserves neither." The exact quote is, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Anonymity is very important, even in a "free society", people are retaliated against for their beliefs and political ideals, by other people. In other societies, it is the government who hunts you down, arrests and otherwise threatens your safety. Whether an ideal, or belief is uttered openly or anonymously, the essence of that ideal or belief impacts those who hear or read it. When you fear getting turned in to your government for comments you make for policies that government practices, then anonymity is what is needed to make those comments heard. Taking anonymity away will only serve to silence those who believe that they can be retaliated against, and will cause them to be silenced - even in a "free society" where one fears their boss, their neighbors, their fellow church goers, or even, the Internet forum posters.

Consider, for example, how many post with alts knowing that what they post can affect them in-game? In-game, comments you make can be retaliated against with a gank, or worse - a bounty... A little humor, but seriously believe that anonymity is an essential tool for democracy and freedom of speech.

EDIT: I like this version too. “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”


If you can threaten me without consequence, I am neither safe nor free. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
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