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The Great Ice Mining Interdiction: Not so Great

First post
Author
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#421 - 2013-08-22 23:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
this thing called social skills

Not on my EVE Online General Discussion.

Only trolling skillZ.

Shh Goonie (Grr™) Trolling is social skills in your alliance P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#422 - 2013-08-23 00:01:04 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Firstly Tippia is male.


Don't care. I base my pronouns on avatars unless asked to do otherwise.

Quote:
Secondly we've yet to see evidence that you're familiar with the technical subjects that you post about, most of what you've posted in the past can be pulled from wikipedia or google with little or no effort.


Given that you can find the vast majority of human knowledge on google, I'm not really sure what you're expecting. Posting at anything deeper than a Wikipedia level always proves pointless, which isn't saying much - Wikipedia goes pretty deep. Similarly, I'm not trying to show you that I'm smart, I'm simply trying to get you to believe what I'm saying. When you dismiss things like Wikipedia and Yale course material, I'm not sure what else I can do.

Quote:
Tippia at least provides evidence to back up his claims.


What? Where?

Quote:
I have a specialist technical background myself, and I can talk to people about it without sounding being boastful or insulting. They might not actually understand what I'm talking about in detail, but I can get the basics across. It's this thing called social skills, you need to work on them.


I'm all ears if you have some pointers; it's not something I'm good at.

However, I might point out that while getting people to smile and nod is a very useful skill, it doesn't seem appropriate here.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#423 - 2013-08-23 00:45:29 UTC
S Byerley wrote:

However, I might point out that while getting people to smile and nod is a very useful skill, it doesn't seem appropriate here.

But the smiles are the entire point of people like myself visiting the forums, while performing otherwise boring tasks in game

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#424 - 2013-08-23 04:49:29 UTC
The ice is melting. In space.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#425 - 2013-08-23 05:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
It's this thing called social skills, you need to work on them.


I'm all ears if you have some pointers; it's not something I'm good at.

However, I might point out that while getting people to smile and nod is a very useful skill, it doesn't seem appropriate here.

Try not to bamboozle people, throw out all the big fancy words and replace them with plain simple ones. A explanation that people can understand without having to refer to a dictionary will go a long way.

For example, my specialty is automotive telematics and control systems, most people will blink at telematics and switch off at control systems, especially if I start spouting acronyms and terms such as CANBUS, MOST, LIN or FlexRay.

If however I said I work with the computers that control modern cars, their security systems, and GPS navigation /tracking systems, people know what I'm talking about.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Spectatoress
Doomheim
#426 - 2013-08-23 05:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Spectatoress
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Just confirming that this is a 20 page thread about how insignificant and unworthy of attention Goons are.


confirmation from someone with the attention span of a 6-year old isnt of much value .... the thread consist to 30% of the usual braindead oneliner of zergswarm goonies like you and 60% are masturbation of some forum-heros about definitions no one cares about with an iq above room temparature .... but hey, thats foreign territory to you as you have just proved with your "confirmation" and your "friends" following suit almost immediately babbling about "tears" that are nowhere to be seen. Lol
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#427 - 2013-08-23 06:02:46 UTC
Spectatoress wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Just confirming that this is a 20 page thread about how insignificant and unworthy of attention Goons are.


confirmation from someone with the attention span of a 6-year old isnt of much value .... the thread consist to 30% of the usual braindead oneliner of zergswarm goonies like you and 60% are ************ of some forum-heros about definitions no one cares about with an iq above room temparature .... but hey, thats foreign territory to you as you have just proved with your "confirmation" and your "friends" following suit almost immediately babbling about "tears" that are nowhere to be seen. Lol


As a CFC pet I am required by my honour and binding word to my liege to say: deal with it.

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ノ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#428 - 2013-08-23 06:06:43 UTC
When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#429 - 2013-08-23 06:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Benny Ohu wrote:
When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius?
When Spectatoress started posting, although given the content of its post, I'd say room temperature is sitting at about absolute zero (measured in °C)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#430 - 2013-08-23 06:44:57 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So there is no risk in ganking. Just expenditure.


There is the risk that some or all of the shots could miss.


That is chance or probability, and what you are describing is the probability of failure. The risk in the endeavour is the cost of trying (ie: the catalyst, fittings, a few rounds of ammo) x the probability of failure (the chance that you don't do the expected damage to the target ).

The for the for-profit gankers, there is the chance that the loot doesn't drop, the chance someone else scoops the loot first, then the usual risks of the hauler getting blown up while carrying the loot to market.

The poor things.
Spectatoress
Doomheim
#431 - 2013-08-23 07:26:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Spectatoress
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius?
When Spectatoress started posting, although given the content of its post, I'd say room temperature is sitting at about absolute zero (measured in °C)


Funny post of Mr. "automotive telematics and control systems" aka "Look at me mummy blabla". Wouldnt be surprised if alt of Tippia. Please continue. But beware of your signature. P
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#432 - 2013-08-23 07:38:02 UTC
i think that's a compliment, jonah
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#433 - 2013-08-23 07:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Spectatoress wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
When did they start measuring IQ in degrees Celcius?
When Spectatoress started posting, although given the content of its post, I'd say room temperature is sitting at about absolute zero (measured in °C)


Funny post of Mr. "automotive telematics and control systems" aka "Look at me mummy blabla". Wouldnt be surprised if alt of Tippia. Please continue. But beware of your signature. P
Firstly, the post you refer to as "Look at me mummy blabla" was in answer to a question from another poster, I know it's hard but please do try and keep up.

Secondly, when you actually understand the context of my signature please get back to me, until then kindly crawl back under your bridge, I believe there's some goats on their way.

Benny Ohu wrote:
i think that's a compliment, jonah

I'll take it as such, being accused of being a Tippia alt is even better than being accused of being a James 315 alt, even if it is coming from an obvious shiptoasting alt.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#434 - 2013-08-23 08:00:17 UTC
Spectatoress wrote:
Funny post of Mr. "automotive telematics and control systems" aka "Look at me mummy blabla". Wouldnt be surprised if alt of Tippia. Please continue. But beware of your signature. P


I assumed that bit was there for rhetorical contrast given the context?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#435 - 2013-08-23 09:30:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
But I didn't contradict myself?
Yes you did. Go back and read it in sequence.

First you said I couldn't multiply the two probabilities together because there was a dependency.
Then you showed a formula where you multiply two probabilities together.
Then you claimed you could do this because they were not dependent.
Then you noted that the probabilities were the ones you initially couldn't multiply together because there was a dependency..

Quote:
So far she's been wrong in every objective fight she's committed to; including but not limited to:

past forum events, the formal definition of risk, and compound probability of dependent events
Presumably you mean the past event where you contradicted yourself in the manner illustrated above? The formal definition of risk I've used has been correct all along (it's probability times cost, by the way, where probability can be anywhere from 0 to 1, and cost can be both positive and negative), and the compound probability of dependent events was also correct all along but you managed to confuse yourself over whether they were dependent or not. So if you want to prove me "wrong in every objective fight" you've already lost because you chose to pick the qualifier "every" and then gave examples where I was correct... unless you're somehow implying that "including" does not refer to the objective fights you're talking about.

Quote:
Tell you what
No, I'll tell you what. How about you prove that you have any clue what you're talking about by backing up your claim and showing how you would write the two in order to control for the dependence of p(stolen)?

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
For example, my specialty is automotive telematics and control systems, most people will blink at telematics and switch off at control systems, especially if I start spouting acronyms and terms such as CANBUS, MOST, LIN or FlexRay.
Funnily enough, I know what three of those acronyms mean. P
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#436 - 2013-08-23 10:11:49 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Then you noted that the probabilities were the ones you initially couldn't multiply together because there was a dependency..


I'm sorry that the notation confused you, but P(B|A) is not the same thing as P(B).

Quote:
The formal definition of risk I've used has been correct all along (it's probability times cost, by the way, where probability can be anywhere from 0 to 1, and cost can be both positive and negative),


Your preferred source, ISO 31000, clearly disagrees - as noted by several others.

Quote:
and the compound probability of dependent events was also correct all along but you managed to confuse yourself over whether they were dependent or not.


No, events A and B are independent if and only if P(B) = P(B|A)

P(not stolen) is clearly not the same as P(not stolen | dropped) because the items can't be stolen if they don't drop, ie P(not stolen | not dropped) = 1.

Quote:
So if you want to prove me "wrong in every objective fight" you've already lost because you chose to pick the qualifier "every" and then gave examples where I was correct... unless you're somehow implying that "including" does not refer to the objective fights you're talking about.


Fortunately, I never said anything about making you admit it.

Quote:
No, I'll tell you what. How about you prove that you have any clue what you're talking about by backing up your claim and showing how you would write the two in order to control for the dependence of p(stolen)?


I don't have to, I already proved you were wrong. Why should I, the person who pointed out your mistake, have to prove my knowledge to you, the person who made the mistake? The reverse seems more appropriate.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#437 - 2013-08-23 10:21:14 UTC
LolLol

Attempting to apply logic formulas to EVE is about on par with dancing about architecture.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#438 - 2013-08-23 10:51:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Wah

S Byerley wrote:
Wah

Can't you guys go find another thread to argue about the risks involved in ganking?
Nobody here cares, and you're ruining a perfectly good CFC hate/miner tears thread.

I get that one or both of you have just finished school and want to use all your magic knowledge before you get a job and realise it all means **** all at the end of the day, but go do it in your own thread.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#439 - 2013-08-23 10:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
I'm sorry that the notation confused you, but P(B|A) is not the same thing as P(B).
...and I'm sorry that you ever thought it was a P(B). Was it the implicit nature of something that can't happen without the other thing happening first that tripped you up?

Quote:
Your preferred source, ISO 31000, clearly disagrees - as noted by several others.
Not really, no. They use the same multiplication of probability and cost (which they rename to "outcome" as to not use a loaded term). They do not arbitrarily remove possible valid values for probabilities.

Quote:
Fortunately, I never said anything about making you admit it.
Nor did I ever claim that you did, but considering how often you asked me to admit to thing, maybe I should...

Quote:
I don't have to
Sure you do, since you're the one making the claim and since every time you've refused to do it, the suspicion has grown that you have no idea what on earth you're talking about. Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer, which raises all kinds of questions about your motivation for not answering something you claim to know and understand well. It tends to imply inability rather than mere unwillingness, for instance.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#440 - 2013-08-23 11:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Tippia wrote:
...and I'm sorry that you ever thought it was a P(B). Was it the implicit nature of something that can't happen without the other thing happening first that tripped you up?


You separated the variables, indicating that you were not making such an assumption. I even covered my bases both by saying the combined variable was correct and asking if you meant something else.

Is that the best you have? "You should have assumed what I meant, not what I wrote." That **** doesn't fly with equations, sorry.

Quote:
Not really, no. They use the same multiplication of probability and cost (which they rename to "outcome" as to not use a loaded term). They do not arbitrarily remove possible valid values for probabilities.


They qualify that the event must be uncertain => P < 1, very clearly and repeatedly.

Quote:
Dodging questions proves nothing except that you're unwilling to answer


Yes.