Intergalactic Summit

Yeah, but any who admit it publicly end up becoming remains themselves. All in the name of "Freedom™," of course.

I'm sorry Rella...

Does Abel Jarek ring any bells?

-Eran

I recall that singular coldly calculated act on the part of the imperials to manipulate a dangerous situation for political advantage quite well. However, I refuse to rise to your obvious bait, Mintor. I stand by my previous post. It's logically flawed to judge an entire group of people based on the (atypical) actions of a few members of that group. What's more, you know better but, continue to flog this fallacy anyway. Shame on you.

I'll just refer you to what Kyllsa wrote and leave it at that.

The last I checked, actually, practice of any religion save the orthodox Amarrian one within the Empire was a crime.

Or are Blood Raiders and EoM no longer branded heretics?

I think we should all take a second and realize we're having two different discussions. There are a few points here that are facts:

A: There are a lot of Matari practicing the Amarrian faith in Matari space.

B: Those Matari face varying amounts of discrimination.

C: Those Matari not practicing the faith are, for the most part, indifferent to both points A and B. Exceptions exist in both cases.

D. Because of points B and C, most Matari who practice the faith live in separate enclaves and colonies, or they hide their faith.

That's essentially the situation I've run into. For the most part, I think the most common reason the Matari are suspicious of other Matari who practice the Word is because of their experience being betrayed into slavery by collaborators. There are a few who honestly want to erase those practitioners for personal vendettas, and it is that few who are responsible for the vast majority of atrocities targeting the Lord's children abroad.

To their eternal credit, I think the violent minority is overshadowed by a larger, vocal minority of Matari who do care about the plight of their believer brethren and find the violence against them abhorrent. I think it keeps better with the Minmatar tradition of sticking together even when you don't agree.

Still, I spend a lot of time trying to help small colonies of believers and speaking with people who are very afraid for their lives. It only takes a small group of vigilantes who decide you are a threat to wreak serious havoc on your vital crops. For the most part, Matari of the faith are very quiet and will travel vast distances under false pretenses for intermittent confessions with an Amarrian priest. It is unfortunate that this is necessary, considering how dangerous travel is and how likely a Minmatar believer is to be pirated or captured. Not everyone who believes wants to be a slave again, and honestly if they can believe in a place like Matari space so far from the center of the Empire, they don't need to be slaves ever again.

To say nothing of being picked up by the Blood Raiders or other mentioned groups who don't necessarily view servitude with the same ends.

It is one of the reasons I travel. Better I risk things that are replaceable to go to them rather than having them risk their irreplaceable lives by coming to us. Believers are a sacred, precious commodity, and all their lives are valuable to the Lord.

I've seen quite a bit of it in my travels, essentially because it isn't a large percentage of Matari who equate killing a Minmatar who shares the faith with killing an Amarrian. I'd say it's a lot easier to justify killing us when they justify it at all, but killing a Matari over his faith still seems like murder.

I suppose it depends on where you are in the cluster, though. I'm assuming less lawful areas of space also have civilians who make their own laws to fill the gap. I spend a lot of time evacuating people to more stable colonies in space with higher security.

I think I know what you're talking about, though. If I am wrong and you are talking about the phenomenon throughout the interior of the Republic as well, I apologize. I am only speaking from my own experiences.

I was refering to Caldari living in the Empire. I don't believe it has everything to do with your navy but it would probably help to be powerful.

Baracca, I was talking about the interior of the Republic as well as other colonies, but no need to apologize. I could have made things clearer.

-Eran

Of course.
Because Caldari never have extraterritorial outposts and stations in territory that isn't thier own. Likewise the Caldari sailors who were cross training our Khanate colleagues can't have been working for the State. Furthermore, State outposts in Matari territory must be staffed by Matari, and the nice young man from Zainou who sold me a new leg must have been using false representation.

Did you bother to read what I wrote, or just indulge in standard straw-manning? I stated that to "be Caldari is to embrace the culture and traditions of the Caldari, including employment in a State corporation".

I did not make a statement of geographical location. Moreover, it's well known that Caldari stations are just that: Caldari Stations. Just as Amarrian stations are just that. But the point is that Caldari do not live as citizens of the Empire, or under Empire law. Even while inside the Empire in a consulting role, they operate as agents of the Megas. How can I say that? Well, for instance, Caldari religious traditions are prohibited under Imperial law, along with all other religious traditions save the Amarrian one. This information is readily available from your nearest Gal-Net hub - try searching for an article called "Demographics of the Amarr Empire".

There are no Caldari outside the State and its institutions. Ever.

Dear sir,

My biggest pet-peeve that has come up lately on the IGS is this labeling of "straw-man arguments" when they are, in-fact, not. I don't know why this term is so trendy, or why it's assumed to be the trump-card of the year, but if you're going to use it, use it properly.

For one, I did indeed read your post. If I didn't, I surely wouldn't have bothered to reply.

Secondly, I did not use any such "straw-man argument" but rather your own words, mainly the last two sentences of your post; the same two sentences you replied with in your last post.



The first assumption I made when I read these statements is that you believed no true Caldari resides outside the State and the mega-corps ownings, thereby not in the borders of the Empire. Since I do not consider you to be a fool, I then took the better meaning of your words and, instead, assumed you meant that the Caldari living in Empire space aboard Caldari stations are considered to be living in the "Caldari State." Since this is in a way true, I then addressed the fact that these stations are still within Empire borders.

However, these Caldari are not only living on stations owned by mega-corporations but also on colonies and other locations owned by the Empire. Please do not confuse the word "living" as I mean it in the same way that "residing" means. Perhaps that is where some confusion arises due to translation software.

First, using the reference* you provided, lets address the Caldari living in the Empire. I quote:



The emphasis is my own, but you certainly aren't required to become a citizen to do business in, or reside in the Empire. Should you choose to become a citizen, then officially you must convert. However, there are even ways to own property without having to be a citizen as is obvious through the multitude of Caldari stations in the Empire. Furthermore, there are citizens who do not follow the faith.

Which brings us to the next point; let's address the issue of foreign religions, with the help of your own resource* once more. I quote:



Again, the emphasis is mine. However, let's think about this. It's important to note that you do not have to be a citizen of the Empire to reside there, whether it's temporary or permanently. Certainly citizenship has it's benefits if you want to remain but it is not required. If it was, it would put many, such as diplomats or foreign business representatives, into an awkward position. Regardless, there are ways to practice your own religion without being considered a heretic, ie. not being an Amarr citizen.

Now to address your emphasis at the end of your last post-you would be one of few to think all Caldari must be employed by a mega-corp and it's institutions. What of the Mordu's Legion, as an example? These Caldari ex-patriates are no longer Caldari in your mind?

-Eran

Note: * This source of yours isn't always the most credible. However, to my knowledge this is good information.