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[Proposal]Repeating ship bumping in higsec space should attract concord's attention

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Kyon Rheyne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-08-17 23:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyon Rheyne
Reason: bumping heavily abused mainly to devoid ship targeted for suicide ganking of warping ability through interfering with its allining while its being pushed away from gate to ease the looting process afterwards. Its also being used by well known group of extorters to disrupt mining activities by bumbping miners out of mining laser's range from asteroids.
Proposal: after serveral bumping incidents repeatedly happened in a short intervail of time, concord should warp to the perpetrator and issue him a warning to stop his activity immideately, otherwise he will get criminal flag and will be fired upon. Probably will be better if after warning they would use a stasis webifer on him, to make him unable to move for some time, to exclude accidental loss of ship in case some glitch happened and player indeed didn't mean no harm; if after receiving a warning and being stasised for 5-10 second he continues with his attempts, it's enough of a reason to apply deadly force.
GreenSeed
#2 - 2013-08-18 06:54:24 UTC
criminal offense? no. suspect flag? definitely.

the game already has built in the tools to make it possible, if they weren't there there would be bumping at all... if one entity collides with another, momentum is transferred. all they need to add is a simple rule set. say, if the entities are not in same fleet, corp, alliance, then after 5 bumps its a warning, then at the 7th bump its a 15 minute flag.

as it is now you can bump a freighter out of alignment for an entire day if you have the time. which is clearly not ok. and i'm sure it ends up being additional petition volume costumer service has to deal with.

its simple risk - reward. the bumper is having fun, but there's no risk. ergo, something needs fixing.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2013-08-18 07:15:06 UTC
umbora
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-18 07:25:05 UTC
Bumping is fun maybe you should try it. and it shouldnt be a problem for miners who are at their computers...are you saying that you are not at your computer when you are mining?

who's AWOXing who
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-08-18 09:27:51 UTC
How exactly will Eve determine which ship bumped the other ?

Because people will attempt to exploit whatever algorithm CCP uses.

What happens when someone tries to play docking games at Jita 4-4 ?
Won't they keep hitting ships every time they undock ?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#6 - 2013-08-18 13:02:11 UTC
Bumping is fine and working as intended.

Also, ShahFluffers has posted the official response to your request.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-08-18 19:26:14 UTC
If I park my Talos in front of your mining or missioning boat while it's moving, causing you to repeatedly bump me and thus get CONCORDed, you'd consider it fair game, right? Roll
GreenSeed
#8 - 2013-08-19 22:30:36 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

GM response on bumping.


that response is due to limitations on the game, their resolution is, since the game has no way to deal with it currently, to allow it.

its is pointless to link it, because it in no way closes the discussion.

try again.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2013-08-19 23:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
GreenSeed wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
I'll just leave this here.

GM response on bumping.


that response is due to limitations on the game, their resolution is, since the game has no way to deal with it currently, to allow it.

its is pointless to link it, because it in no way closes the discussion.

try again.

Where does it say that bumping is only allowed because of the "game limitations?" All I read was...

"CCP considers the act of bumping a normal game mechanic, and does not class the bumping of another player’s ship as an exploit"

The only exception made to this was prolonged and sustained bumping from the same people despite all reasonable efforts to avoid it.

How did you Veterans start?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#10 - 2013-08-20 14:13:57 UTC
I support making it concordable or suspect flagging, only because of how quickly the OP and the people like him begging for this will regret it the minute they undock from a somewhat busy station, or the minute they cluster together in a belt to mine, or ... etc
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2013-08-21 08:25:38 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
criminal offense? no. suspect flag? definitely.

the game already has built in the tools to make it possible, if they weren't there there would be bumping at all... if one entity collides with another, momentum is transferred. all they need to add is a simple rule set. say, if the entities are not in same fleet, corp, alliance, then after 5 bumps its a warning, then at the 7th bump its a 15 minute flag.

as it is now you can bump a freighter out of alignment for an entire day if you have the time. which is clearly not ok. and i'm sure it ends up being additional petition volume costumer service has to deal with.

its simple risk - reward. the bumper is having fun, but there's no risk. ergo, something needs fixing.


What risk does a miner face that a bumper doesn't?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kyon Rheyne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-08-21 09:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyon Rheyne
Malcanis wrote:


What risk does a miner face that a bumper doesn't?


Why has discussion came down to miners suddenly? Bumpers are more of a threat in suicide ganking scheme. Here they face almost no risks while basically asist criminals and in many cases its them who make this crime even possible. Still, they won't get neither killrights on itself nor criminal flag. Such bumping has a very distingiushable pattern. It lasts for such a long time its highly unlikly that can be done unintentionally.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#13 - 2013-08-22 21:27:13 UTC
Kyon Rheyne wrote:
Reason: bumping heavily abused mainly to devoid ship targeted for suicide ganking of warping ability through interfering with its allining while its being pushed away from gate to ease the looting process afterwards. Its also being used by well known group of extorters to disrupt mining activities by bumbping miners out of mining laser's range from asteroids.
Proposal: after serveral bumping incidents repeatedly happened in a short intervail of time, concord should warp to the perpetrator and issue him a warning to stop his activity immideately, otherwise he will get criminal flag and will be fired upon. Probably will be better if after warning they would use a stasis webifer on him, to make him unable to move for some time, to exclude accidental loss of ship in case some glitch happened and player indeed didn't mean no harm; if after receiving a warning and being stasised for 5-10 second he continues with his attempts, it's enough of a reason to apply deadly force.



You're right after repeated ship bumping CONCORD should join in with the bumpers and take out the offending miner/freighter etc


Disclaimer: Viewpoints in this post may not be supporting the OP as I don't support it.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#14 - 2013-08-22 21:29:33 UTC
Kyon Rheyne wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


What risk does a miner face that a bumper doesn't?


Why has discussion came down to miners suddenly? Bumpers are more of a threat in suicide ganking scheme. Here they face almost no risks while basically asist criminals and in many cases its them who make this crime even possible. Still, they won't get neither killrights on itself nor criminal flag. Such bumping has a very distingiushable pattern. It lasts for such a long time its highly unlikly that can be done unintentionally.



apart from the fact CCP are on the side of the bumpers, they generally exhibit a lot of skill as it's not just approach a lot of the time.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-08-22 23:22:50 UTC
Kyon Rheyne wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


What risk does a miner face that a bumper doesn't?


Why has discussion came down to miners suddenly? Bumpers are more of a threat in suicide ganking scheme. Here they face almost no risks while basically asist criminals and in many cases its them who make this crime even possible. Still, they won't get neither killrights on itself nor criminal flag. Such bumping has a very distingiushable pattern. It lasts for such a long time its highly unlikly that can be done unintentionally.

You missed the point entirely. Anything done to penalize bumping will be turned right back around and used against miners and other indutrialists. All one of them has to do is get in your way... then have a friend who doesn't care about dying bump you into him.

Of course, you could have the mechanics not register the second or third bump... so then the bumpers would just flip it around and bump one of their friends into you.

Quite basicly, your idea is a lose-lose situation for all miners.

How did you Veterans start?
Cade Windstalker
#16 - 2013-08-26 07:12:52 UTC
I can see the News headlines now

"20 Freighters destroyed by Concord on Jita gate during traffic jam after unfortunate frigate ends up bumping off all of them simultaneously and goes flying into deep space"

Lol

Seriously though, if someone is bumping you so that you can't warp and isn't shooting you then report them, a GM will be along shortly. If someone bumps you a few times and you make no attempt to avoid them or leave then... well that's sort of your fault. Orbiting alone makes it harder for miners specifically to be bump victims (or gank victims for that matter)
Rosie Tyler
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-10-28 16:48:07 UTC
I think it would be useful to have bumping "physics" work. In a recent bumping incident I noticed my freighter (980x10**6 kg) was moving about he same as the Machariel that was attempted to hold me up. At 10x less mass than me he should have been unable to have as much impact as he did. And his rebound (assuming perfect elasticity) should have been 10x as great.

Another thought but impractical would be to transfer damage to both parties in proportion to mass.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#18 - 2013-10-28 19:54:01 UTC

FYI, if you are being bumped.... use the log off safely mechanism to despawn your ship without alerting the bumpers to your impending disappearance.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#19 - 2013-10-29 08:08:00 UTC
Hey OP why don't you go join a nullsec group and mine out there? Null has stronger police than highsec would you believe it... being set to red is like a death sentence
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#20 - 2013-10-29 09:50:19 UTC
Thoot him, offither! Thoot him at onthe! HE PUTHED ME!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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