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My Experience

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-08-19 16:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Azurae wrote:
Sevindaes Merchance wrote:
Empty, like when my grandpa died


within this sentence is the answer to your problem. you my dear friend are what people call a psychopath. If you 'felt' the same when you got podded as you 'felt' when your grandpa died it is very likely that you didnt feel anything at all (which is pretty much what 'feeling' empty is). Chances are you knew from experience with other people that you should feel something now and just didn't, which in turn made you wonder why you didn't feel anything, which is your impression of an empty 'feeling'.

BUT don't quit just because you are a psychopath. In eve being a psychopath can be a real advantage. you can join a corp, build trust and then just rob everyone without having to feel guilty like the average boring people. you can backstab your way through eve without any worries and lose ships and pods without any worries too. You didn't experience a feeling when you lost your pod so don't ever worry about it again.


Note: i'm using the word psychopath not as an insult here but should you really feel offended you actually might not be a psychopath, in that case just ignore this post. if on the other hand you 'feel' empty again (or 'feel' nothing at all) then my dear friend consider what i said and it might just improve your life.

edit: btw having no facial or body expression in your avatar at all is a huge sign for psychopathy too. your avatar *hint hint*

Feeling emptyness isn't like feeling nothing.
You're mixing things up.

The OP felt empty, because he lost a part of his emotional being.

The issue is his strong emotional attachement to space pixel property/achievements.

A true sociopath would rather rage heavily (on the inside) and wish all the bad things he can imagine onto the one
who attacked him, or start creating and executing plans how to pay it back IRL, but definitely not feel emptyness.
Ekhss Nihilo
The Night Watchmen
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2013-08-19 17:30:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sevindaes Merchance wrote:
Skill training is simply too long. To have the ability to compete with older players, six months to a year of real time may not be enough.
That all depends on what you mean by “compete”. You can beat older players within a matter of weeks (or even days) of starting the game, and the main thing that's holding you back is not skills, but contacts and ISK. The only thing you can't “compete” in is total SP, but as luck would have it, total SP is worthless since all it does is make your clone more expensive.

Quote:
Skills are too many and too complex, it is difficult to determine the training path necessary for what you want to do. (I wasted over 2 weeks training skills I didn’t need to at the time)
This is intentional. Well, not the wasting time part, but the amount and complexity. It's there to ensure that you can't do too many things on your own, but have to rely on other people. This is the solution to your wasted time problem as well: ask other people for advice. Use the myriad of player-made (and even some CCP-made) tools at your disposal to determine where you're going and what you need to get there.

That said, you need to be a bit judicious in whom you listen to. If you spent two weeks training useless skills, chances are you came across one of those griefers in newbie corp chat that tells you to train your skills to IV or V just to try something out, when trying something out takes all of 15 minutes (training a skill to I).

Quote:
System travel, while realistic, is simply too long. Over half an hour of real time to travel less than 20 jumps is a waste of my game time.
It's massively unrealistic, and a common complaint is actually that it's too fast and easy. The time is there to make space appear vast and to make you think twice about doing those 20 jumps and consider maybe doing business locally.

Quote:
Too few NPC missions, and none that teach you relevant skills.
There's a bunch of them, and aside for the tutorials, they're not there to teach you any relevant skills. You're meant to turn to other players for that (you could just experiment on your own, but that's immensely inefficient), and missions only have one purpose: to inject ISK into the economy. That's all.

By the sound of it, the main problem you're having is none of the above, but rather with your presumption that the game will provide you with a purpose and motivation. EVE is not that kind of game. Instead, it's a game where you create your purpose and motivation, and the game gets the hell out of the way so you can pursue your own goals. Stop looking to NPCs to do anything for you, and start looking to yourself and other players because that's where every last bit of content in the game is.


This. EVE will not give you a sense of purpose. That is yours to create. You must come to the game with the same strength of character, the same qualities that drive you in real life. A vaulting imagination, the urge to succeed at whatever you try, unbridled curiosity, a sense of wonder, perseverance in the face of difficulty and setbacks - any and all of these character traits are what makes this game so ultimately satisfying. In my short time in the EVE universe, it's become obvious that it would take a decade or more to come even close to discovering all this game's possibilities. And because so much of the game's real content is player-driven, the permutations are endless. That's the brilliance of this EVE universe.

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#63 - 2013-08-19 17:57:15 UTC
Ekhss Nihilo wrote:


You must come to the game with the same strength of character, the same qualities that drive you in real life. A vaulting imagination, the urge to succeed at whatever you try, unbridled curiosity, a sense of wonder, perseverance in the face of difficulty and setbacks - any and all of these character traits are what makes this game so ultimately satisfying.


This is the exact reason why themepark MMOs (that guide players and hold their hands) are more popular than sandbox MMOs, and also why a subset of EVE players would love to see ccp "themepark EVE". In real life most people will simply "ride the rides" of life ie grow up, work, come home, get up, go back to work, rinse and repeat till they die with only the occasional breaks in routine being a natural disaster or a vacation in someplace Vegas for a couple days lol. The fact is, most people would honestly rather be told what to do and live in comfort and safety than figure it out on their own and take a risk.

And people play as they live. It's why soooo many people run straight to the forum when they have a problem (or question about gameplay they should be figuring out for themselves, look at the ships and modules or missions forum sections where people ask for fits lol).
Khen'do Khen
#64 - 2013-08-19 21:03:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Ekhss Nihilo]
And people play as they live. It's why soooo many people run straight to the forum when they have a problem (or question about gameplay they should be figuring out for themselves, look at the ships and modules or missions forum sections where people ask for fits lol).


I don't think I would go that far. In life, we learn what others have learned by being taught. We go to school, we go to college, we ask our friends and mentors about things we aren't sure of, we open a book. Not everything we learn is learned through experience. We take the information others have developed and see if we can't go a little farther.

So yeah, people want to look up what others have learned in EVE. Of course I will look at ship fittings. Doesn't mean I will use it exactly as it's shown (although I may be guilty of it a few times). I'll tweak it and make it mine. But I'm not gonna learn to fit a ship purely through trial and error when the info is already out there. Just like I'm not gonna learn to build a car through trial and error when basic mechanics is something you should learn first. And then when you start building a car, you will look at what others have done first.

That said, I understand what you're saying. Too many people want to be spoon fed. They want the exact fitting, the exact way to do something. The first MMO I ever played was WoW. I got to raiding and quit. It was the exact same thing spoon-fed to the players over and over again, just with a different skin on it. A few other MMOs later I found EVE. Exactly what I was looking for in a game. If I could ever get good at it...
Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-08-19 21:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Spenser for Hire
Ekhss Nihilo wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Quote:
Too few NPC missions, and none that teach you relevant skills.
There's a bunch of them, and aside for the tutorials, they're not there to teach you any relevant skills. You're meant to turn to other players for that (you could just experiment on your own, but that's immensely inefficient), and missions only have one purpose: to inject ISK into the economy. That's all.

By the sound of it, the main problem you're having is none of the above, but rather with your presumption that the game will provide you with a purpose and motivation. EVE is not that kind of game. Instead, it's a game where you create your purpose and motivation, and the game gets the hell out of the way so you can pursue your own goals. Stop looking to NPCs to do anything for you, and start looking to yourself and other players because that's where every last bit of content in the game is.


This. EVE will not give you a sense of purpose. That is yours to create. You must come to the game with the same strength of character, the same qualities that drive you in real life. A vaulting imagination, the urge to succeed at whatever you try, unbridled curiosity, a sense of wonder, perseverance in the face of difficulty and setbacks - any and all of these character traits are what makes this game so ultimately satisfying. In my short time in the EVE universe, it's become obvious that it would take a decade or more to come even close to discovering all this game's possibilities. And because so much of the game's real content is player-driven, the permutations are endless. That's the brilliance of this EVE universe.

The game that is being sold to players and the way those players are expected to play the game are two entirely different things.

"...you can pursue your own goals. Stop looking to NPCs ...." contradiction. What if turning to NPCs is the player's own goal?

The game is advertised as a "Sandbox", you can do what you want, pursue your goals, decide your own playstyle, but, when they do, when they pursue what they want, they're told that they are playing the game wrong, not playing the game the way it was "meant" to be played. etc.

The subtle but ever so forceful Bait & Switch. "You can do what you want to ... no, no, no, not that ...do this."

The OP is correct. It is a failing of CCP's, and not the inexperienced, new player(s). If the game is "meant to be played in Null-Sec" then sell Null-Sec to players. Why isn't CCP selling Null-Sec to players??? If the game is "meant to be played in player Corporations" then why put players in NPC corps??? Why teach players to work for NPCs??? The list could be extended.

Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#66 - 2013-08-20 00:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Solstice Project wrote:
Besides all lowsec and PvP nonsense these people infect the heads of noobs with,
a huge game breaker is that they are told that mining or running missions is a good way to start and make isk.

There the downward spiral starts.

The saddest about this i that it's futile to try to bring noobs to more fun ways of making money,
because the evernoobs prevent that. They play with the fears of new players and sadly succeed with it.

What can we do?


Head to the Making ISK guide. Start making positive and constructive edits. If you have a blog, take the time to describe the income you make from PvP or to support your PvP. Make sure your blog is discoverable: a link in your bio, twitter profile, forum signature, etc.

Then the Making ISK guide gets linked to people who read it and the ways of making ISK that are not mining or mission running get infused into the global consciousness and magic happens. Underpants gnomes.

But seriously, enrich that guide with some ideas of your own. I will be revisiting it soon to adjust priorities. The EVElopedia has been broken for a long time but it is working again now.

edit: started some edits to get the ball rolling .

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sevindaes Merchance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-08-20 06:51:30 UTC
Well, thanks for all the comments, they are appreciated.

I am not quitting EVE, of all the MMOs it has been the most challenging and the best.

I am not ready for lowsec, not just yet, but one day maybe.

Thanks all.
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#68 - 2013-08-20 08:48:33 UTC
Sevindaes Merchance wrote:
I am not ready for lowsec, not just yet, but one day maybe.


Get a chair to wait because you will get tired, with that mentality your will never move out of "safety".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#69 - 2013-08-20 09:13:06 UTC
Spenser for Hire wrote:
"...you can pursue your own goals. Stop looking to NPCs ...." contradiction. What if turning to NPCs is the player's own goal?
Then he should not look to NPCs to solve his problems with NPCs (since the NPCs are apparently problematic). Instead, he should ask other players how to deal with it, because the game won't help him.

There is no contradiction — just a misapplication of meaning and context of the two statements.

Quote:
The game is advertised as a "Sandbox", you can do what you want, pursue your goals, decide your own playstyle, but, when they do, when they pursue what they want, they're told that they are playing the game wrong, not playing the game the way it was "meant" to be played.
No, they really aren't.

Quote:
The OP is correct. It is a failing of CCP's, and not the inexperienced, new player(s). If the game is "meant to be played in Null-Sec" then sell Null-Sec to players.
Good news: the game is not “meant to be played in nullsec.”

Quote:
If the game is "meant to be played in player Corporations" then why put players in NPC corps??? Why teach players to work for NPCs?
It's not meant to be played in any particular way, and players are taught to work for NPCs because that's one of their options. This doesn't mean that the NPCs will ever teach them anything because that's not what they're for — for that, other players are your main source of information and knowledge.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-08-20 16:47:45 UTC
Spenser for Hire wrote:

The game that is being sold to players and the way those players are expected to play the game are two entirely different things.

"...you can pursue your own goals. Stop looking to NPCs ...." contradiction. What if turning to NPCs is the player's own goal?

The game is advertised as a "Sandbox", you can do what you want, pursue your goals, decide your own playstyle, but, when they do, when they pursue what they want, they're told that they are playing the game wrong, not playing the game the way it was "meant" to be played. etc.

The subtle but ever so forceful Bait & Switch. "You can do what you want to ... no, no, no, not that ...do this."

The OP is correct. It is a failing of CCP's, and not the inexperienced, new player(s). If the game is "meant to be played in Null-Sec" then sell Null-Sec to players. Why isn't CCP selling Null-Sec to players??? If the game is "meant to be played in player Corporations" then why put players in NPC corps??? Why teach players to work for NPCs??? The list could be extended.


Please extend the list ... that would be funny I think.

If you want a player free sandbox stuffed with NPC's, go play X3.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#71 - 2013-08-20 17:40:15 UTC
Best post ever.

My only regret of you leaving eve is that I was not the one to have had the honour of podding you.

Blue
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-08-20 18:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Here's yer answer, straight from CCP.

Quote:
For a start, the game's notoriously difficult and gives the player very little idea of how to play it. This is shown clearly in the retention of subscribers: about 50% cancel their subs in the first six months. Pétursson says this is a good thing, a polar opposite philosophy to practically ever other MMO creator in the world.

"We're often asked why we don't just fix it, why we don't make it easier to start," he says. "You could look at this as a great weakness. We lose more than half the people in the first six months, so why don't we make it easier and more accessible? It's important to note that this is the filter that creates the community. Messing about too much with it would really affect what keeps people playing the game... The people that have this mindset are the game's strongest asset."

Great words, but sadly nerfing actions taken in recent releases have clearly shown the road to nerfdom is well under way in reality.

Would you like to know more?
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#73 - 2013-08-20 18:33:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sevindaes Merchance wrote:
Skill training is simply too long. To have the ability to compete with older players, six months to a year of real time may not be enough.
That all depends on what you mean by “compete”. You can beat older players within a matter of weeks (or even days) of starting the game, and the main thing that's holding you back is not skills, but contacts and ISK. The only thing you can't “compete” in is total SP, but as luck would have it, total SP is worthless since all it does is make your clone more expensive.



As luck would have it....you are wrong. SP matter...they may not be the only factor that determine the final out come of the encounter but they play a large part. Not only the amount of SP matter but also where you have placed them.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#74 - 2013-08-20 18:41:50 UTC
Sevindaes Merchance wrote:
Well, thanks for all the comments, they are appreciated.

I am not quitting EVE, of all the MMOs it has been the most challenging and the best.

I am not ready for lowsec, not just yet, but one day maybe.

Thanks all.


The more ships you lose, the easier it gets. The last time I got podded, my response on comms was, "I'm off to high sec. I'll be back in about 15 minutes." It only took that long because I had to buy and fit another ship to replace the one I lost.

Don't wait to go back into lowsec, just bring the right ship for lowsec. A missioning battlecruiser is easy meat. A PVP frigate, or cruiser, is not. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/ is a fantastic resource: you can type in the name of the lowsec system you want to go in to, and see how many ships and pods have been destroyed in the last hour, or 24 hours, or week, and when, so that you have the ability to pick and choose the amount of trouble you get into (within reason).

Heck, if you acquit yourself decently in a few fights (which doesn't require that you win them!) you might even be able to strike up some friendships with a lowsec corp or two, and learn to live there. It just depends on what sort of gameplay you'd like to try.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Jassmin Joy
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#75 - 2013-08-20 18:46:15 UTC
it'd be interesting to see if EvE could handle more than that, if we were to gain another 10-20 thousand new players could the servers handle it? How would systems like Jita fair with it already hitting population cap and battles like asakai already causing tidi to go as far as it can be pushed and servers to struggle.

i Honestly Think eve is hitting it's limitations, You can only go so far with legacy code and single-shard on current servers.
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-08-20 19:13:00 UTC
Jassmin Joy wrote:
it'd be interesting to see if EvE could handle more than that, if we were to gain another 10-20 thousand new players could the servers handle it? How would systems like Jita fair with it already hitting population cap and battles like asakai already causing tidi to go as far as it can be pushed and servers to struggle.

i Honestly Think eve is hitting it's limitations, You can only go so far with legacy code and single-shard on current servers.


By buying new hardware from the added subs and buff the cluster running Jita and other systems that will get more crowded they would probably be able to cope n/p. They have quite a lot of stuff on dedicated servers and are quite flexible in where to put the CPU cycles. Asakai was not on a reinforced node afaik.
Jassmin Joy
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#77 - 2013-08-20 19:17:57 UTC
Ressiv wrote:
Jassmin Joy wrote:
it'd be interesting to see if EvE could handle more than that, if we were to gain another 10-20 thousand new players could the servers handle it? How would systems like Jita fair with it already hitting population cap and battles like asakai already causing tidi to go as far as it can be pushed and servers to struggle.

i Honestly Think eve is hitting it's limitations, You can only go so far with legacy code and single-shard on current servers.


By buying new hardware from the added subs and buff the cluster running Jita and other systems that will get more crowded they would probably be able to cope n/p. They have quite a lot of stuff on dedicated servers and are quite flexible in where to put the CPU cycles. Asakai was not on a reinforced node afaik.


It wasnt, but with a larger player base bigger fights like that would be more common, and they'll not always have warning or time to reinforce these nodes.
Pew Terror
All of it
#78 - 2013-08-20 19:30:22 UTC
Take my tip as a fellow new player to eve:

**** highsec, welcome lowsec.

I started playing about 4 month ago and was doing missions, trying to get into bigger ships, do harder missions.
I got bored very quickly because the skill training time will be far too long for what you want to do and missioning isnt very good in this game.
Then i decided "screw this" and just joined faction warfare and went straight into lowsec. Getting killed the first few times i must admit feels bad. You probably forgot to upgrade your medical clone, spawn 45 jumps away from where you were operating and need to fly around for over an hour to build your new ship because you constantly forget parts.
This teaches you quickly the ropes though imo.
Once you learn the lowsec ways (it just takes a few days really) death wont matter to you anymore. Die, spawn in your own little base, take one of your many fit frigates and head out again, no biggie.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#79 - 2013-08-20 22:32:56 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Great words, but sadly nerfing actions taken in recent releases have clearly shown the road to nerfdom is well under way in reality.


From the article you linked:

Creating Killers wrote:
… Jojo began to see the light, to see how it was possible to kill other players in hisec, and it was actually pretty easy.


So for an article that starts of whining about how hisec is getting nerfed into safety, it sounds an awful lot like ganking in hisec is still fun and easy. You can confirm that it is still profitable by wandering through Uedama or Niarja and observing the fleets of Taloses wandering back and forth.

Of course the gankers are going to point out the suspect flag and the HP buff to mining barges, but they never celebrate the DPS buffs given during the destroyer rebalancing, the introduction of tier 3 battlecruisers, and let's not forget the immense utility to the ganker provided by the removal of the logoffski exploit. Then there's the upcoming medium weapons balance making life for cruiser and battlecruiser pilots much rosier.

But no, you're a glass-half-full kind of person, the only things that stick in your memory are the parts of rebalancing that make life harder for you. You are a terrible person, a carebear pretending to be a PvPer. I don't know how your mother can bear seeing what you have become.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-08-20 22:50:31 UTC
Frankly the only thing keeping people in this game is how dangerous it can be. There are a dozen themepark WoW clones to choose from if I want to play a saucy pirate wench in a non threatening environment where I can't actually pirate things. Or sauce them.

Don't get attached to your spaceships. This is what I tell every new person to this game. You will die. It will hurt. There will be an impact on your playtime due to that death. You can either face this cold universe in fear, every minute spent scurrying from safe system to safe system in abject terror of the bad men who WILL touch you... or you can be a bad man that touches others. Like my uncle.