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Poetic Justice for Gold Farming

Author
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#161 - 2013-08-16 20:32:49 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
That is RMT & breaks the EULA that you accepted when you play this game. You should be banned & all you stuff taken by CCP.

End of Story :P


A gaming company would have to prove:
a.Money exchanged hands between the two parties in question.
b.The exchange of monies constituted a quid pro quo transaction.
c.The exchange was exactly real world currency for in-game currency/items/characters/etc. (as opposed to some sort of payment-for-service arrangement).
d.The original wording of the agreement between the gaming company and the gamer could reasonably be understood to prohibit such a transaction.

In addition, it would be very important that no other rules, regulations, laws superseded or pre-empted such a stipulation in the original agreement (the EULA) . . . blabbitty blah blah blah . . . there is so much gray area to muddle through. It's not so simple or lawyers wouldn't get paid so damn much and there probably wouldn't even be a need for something like an "End User License Agreement".

Besides all that, what gives a gaming company the right to essentially destroy what I may have been building up for years (maybe over a decade, in the case of EVE Online)? Isn't taking away my stuff and my character damaging me in some sense? Shouldn't they have to prove that I damaged them before they are allowed to damage me?
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#162 - 2013-08-16 20:53:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Murk Paradox wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:



The article on this thread shows that "gold farming" is legal in Australia (and funnily enough is right next door to China).

Maybe they should have some sort of smuggler type deal where they cross the border for "legal" employment....

I just realized... those are prisoners being forced to play on the computer.

How terrible. They should stop at breaking rocks or finding the soft spot on a tank or something. How dare they be forced to play on a computer!

Check out the whole article. They had to break rocks or something all day until dark, have a half hour for a meal, and then grind quests in WoW until 3:00 AM or something. 7 days per week. And they had to play WoW gewd-- if they failed a quest or didn't meet their leveling-up quota, the guards would punish them.
Is that the definition of hell or what?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#163 - 2013-08-16 21:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
That is RMT & breaks the EULA that you accepted when you play this game. You should be banned & all you stuff taken by CCP.

End of Story :P


A gaming company would have to prove:
a.Money exchanged hands between the two parties in question.
b.The exchange of monies constituted a quid pro quo transaction.
c.The exchange was exactly real world currency for in-game currency/items/characters/etc. (as opposed to some sort of payment-for-service arrangement).
d.The original wording of the agreement between the gaming company and the gamer could reasonably be understood to prohibit such a transaction.

In addition, it would be very important that no other rules, regulations, laws superseded or pre-empted such a stipulation in the original agreement (the EULA) . . . blabbitty blah blah blah . . . there is so much gray area to muddle through. It's not so simple or lawyers wouldn't get paid so damn much and there probably wouldn't even be a need for something like an "End User License Agreement".

Besides all that, what gives a gaming company the right to essentially destroy what I may have been building up for years (maybe over a decade, in the case of EVE Online)? Isn't taking away my stuff and my character damaging me in some sense? Shouldn't they have to prove that I damaged them before they are allowed to damage me?

Nope the EULA allows CCP to turn round and ban you for any reason they see fit. It's not your stuff or your character as it's all the property of CCP, you agreed to that when you clicked accept on the EULA, legally you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#164 - 2013-08-16 21:03:10 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:



The article on this thread shows that "gold farming" is legal in Australia (and funnily enough is right next door to China).

Maybe they should have some sort of smuggler type deal where they cross the border for "legal" employment....

I just realized... those are prisoners being forced to play on the computer.

How terrible. They should stop at breaking rocks or finding the soft spot on a tank or something. How dare they be forced to play on a computer!

Check out the whole article. They had to break rocks or something all day until dark, have a half hour for a meal, and then grind quests in WoW until 3:00 AM or something. 7 days per week. And they had to play WoW gewd-- if they failed a quest or didn't meet their leveling-up quota, the guards would punish them.
Is that the definition of hell or what?



Yep. Down with communism! Or is it down with jails? I dunno... make a vote!

I mean it's not like solitary confinement or just a random beating because "they can" (which happens and is my point).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Prince Kobol
#165 - 2013-08-16 21:23:27 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
RMT does not harm eve in anyway, botting does. If CCP implemented any effort into curbing botting and multi boxing then RMT would not be a problem. If some one wants to grind ISK and sell it fairly for dollar then who is that harming other than CCP? Botting however damages the player base by artificially inflating PLEX price.

The solution is easy, have a mandatory monthly subscription while still selling PLEX, ban botting/multi boxing while allowing RMT'rs to do their trade. Having a mandatory sub that can not be plexed would kill botting, rmt botting and multi boxing overnight. The only peeps who would even try multi box after this would be rmt'rs trying to cheat the grind system. Ban them when encountered.

30k players online, so that's at least 2.5k bots, 10k afk, maybe 1k multi boxing, 7.5K alts and that leaves about 9k who are actually players in space.


RMT does not hurt CCP.. seriously..

Sorry but you must be trolling as nobody can be THAT stupid ( I also suspect somebody who has been caught buying isk via a RMT and is butthurt)

Okay.. It hurts CCP because instead of somebody buying a PLEX from CCP, they are buying it from somebody else and that money does not go to CCP...

You see now, get it?

Think of all that isk that is being purchased from RMT sites.. not 1 penny goes to CCP.

Now think of all that extra revenue CCP could have if RMT did not exist and everybody who paid for isk buy purchasing a PLEX from CCP.

So tell everybody again how RMT does not hurt CCP, in turn Eve, in turn us the players?

Also I love how you have randomly plucked numbers out of arse, very entertaining :)



Let's not derail the topic, but when you RESELL Plex, CCP has already gotten their money from it in the first transaction.

Plex is not player generated after all. It just changes hands. Whether it be from Joe's isk or Joe's cash, Steve, who is selling the plex, already bought it from CCP the first time.



Okay.. let me rephrase this.

Player X buys isk from a RMT site - CCP Loses money as that person did not purchase a PLEX, whether it was CCP or any other authorised Seller.

How is that?

You still saying that RMT does not Hurt Eve?






I am saying RMT does not hurt the player. EVE doesn't factor into it. We are not EVE.

As ANY/All accounts apart from trials require a sub in some for of fashion, it doesn't have any bearing on yours or my daily activities. Therefore not up to us to decide.

But if that RMTer made the isk, and decided to do whatever he wanted with it... no, that doesn't hurt Eve.

Make a new account, go to Rookie Help, and see how many other donations happen where people shower newbies with isk. Paint your picture there and see what happens =)


Of course RMT hurts the player.

RMT stops money which should go going CCP, therefore its lost revenue that could be otherwise spent on the game that as a player I pay for
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2013-08-16 21:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Prince Kobol wrote:


Of course RMT hurts the player.

RMT stops money which should go going CCP, therefore its lost revenue that could be otherwise spent on the game that as a player I pay for



No it doesn't. Because you can shower isk onto friends, corpies, rookies, whelp ships, make donations, gamble, get caught in a scam, or any other loss.

RMT is simply someone making a buck off of CCP without their permission.

Your gameplay, and CCP's development have nothing to do if I donated or paid for ships to give my alliance to lose in a fight (unless those ships were used in a fight near you or against/with you of course).

Or I could even just hoard isk, and that keeps the isk away from CCP since it is not being used AT ALL and is effectively removed from the game, until I decide to use it again.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#167 - 2013-08-16 22:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nope 1.the EULA 2.allows 3. CCP to turn round and 4. ban 5. you 6. for any reason they see fit. 7. It's not your stuff or your character as it's all the property of CCP, 8. you agreed to that when you clicked accept on the EULA so 9. legally you haven't got a leg to stand on.


1. Which one?
2. But does it compel?
3. Who is CCP exactly? Is that who is doing the banning?
4. What is "banning"?
5. Do they ban me or my character or my IP address or my credit card?
6. Even just because I play naked or am a vegetarian? (I'm kidding. I eat meat. Sometimes, I'm naked when I eat it.)
7. Are you saying that someone from Goonswarm could not write a book about how they took down Band Of Brothers, because CCP owns that story and those characters? What if they put it in the "non-fiction" category of the bookstore?
8. What if I never clicked "Accept"? What if I am not the "end user"? What if I am legally incapable of entering into a binding contract because I'm ******** or a minor or something else?
9. I haven't got a legal leg to stand on . . . in which jurisdiction? I don't have a legal leg to stand on . . . in reversing a ban or in regards to being compensated for my damages should the gaming company breach our contract? (I think that recurring payment would come back and bite a company in the ass, as it indicates an ON-GOING agreement, rather than a simple one time transaction.)

^ that's what a lawyer would do with the entire EULA. This is a brand new field of law. Even something as simple as "Thou shalt not kill." isn't so simple as that, so "Thou shalt not gold farm."? The legal framework for how these things are supposed to work is not set. Remember when companies opened up online casinos and it took a while for the government to react and go "Durrr . . . wait, gambling is illegal!"? A "EULA" or any sort of legal agreement is often a lot like birth control. It works 99.9% of the time, but that one time it malfunctions, you end up paying through the nose for what should have been just a cheap thrill.

That brings us back to the main point. You can control what YOU do, but you can never really know what someone else will do, and once you start trying to control them, you are bound to run into all sorts of problems.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2013-08-16 23:15:49 UTC
a thread of people talking out of their arses eh
Tinker Vuld
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2013-08-17 01:46:38 UTC
Well, 9 pages and its still in General Discussion, so I'm assuming this legal discussion still has something to do with spaceships.

Can I suggest a real space lawyer mediate from here on, and perhaps provide a TL;DR for all the preceding drivel? I hear Babatunde B Babatunde has a lot of spare time on his hands.

Edit: Benny may have already supplied the TL;DR

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