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How do you treat your crews?
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Confliktus
Perkone
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-08-28 09:40:46 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
John Caligan wrote:
I've always been a firm believer that a strong captain-crew relationship is what makes a ship run best.

Nope. That's what an XO is for. Crew needs someone for that who actually walks on two legs and sees what they see when they are in the thick of it.

You are needed because the best way known to humanity to co-ordinate a ship is to give it a spirit. You are, essentially, a brain in a pod of goo, virtuals lying to it and convincing it it is a spaceship and implant feeds hijacking your brainpower to do things that would otherwise require a supercomputer. Essentially, you are a glorified automatic targeting and navigation system with motivations of its own.

The crew don't need you to pretend you are one of them and feel all warm and fuzzy by your awesome ability to connect with baseliners. They need you to do your freaking job and let them do theirs.

Else


Good lady i trust you never had to clone jump from your pod into "your body" on any given emergency to fight alongside your crew...

One of our jobs is to do exactly that, being able to be there when needed and to have the crew know that you are more then a glorified ship control system hanging on a pod full of goo like you said.

I for one enjoy coming out of the shell and experience human interaction now and then.
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-08-28 20:28:50 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
John Caligan wrote:
I've always been a firm believer that a strong captain-crew relationship is what makes a ship run best.

Nope. That's what an XO is for. Crew needs someone for that who actually walks on two legs and sees what they see when they are in the thick of it.

You are needed because the best way known to humanity to co-ordinate a ship is to give it a spirit. You are, essentially, a brain in a pod of goo, virtuals lying to it and convincing it it is a spaceship and implant feeds hijacking your brainpower to do things that would otherwise require a supercomputer. Essentially, you are a glorified automatic targeting and navigation system with motivations of its own.

The crew don't need you to pretend you are one of them and feel all warm and fuzzy by your awesome ability to connect with baseliners. They need you to do your freaking job and let them do theirs.

Else


Ms. Rhiannon i must disagree. It is true that a captain's first duty is that of operating his ship to the fullest extent of his ability but the welfare of the crew are important to the functioning of the ship and by extension the execution of this primary duty. Plus, not all of us have forgotten that we are neither machines nor gods. If interaction with the people I work with is the difference between optimal performance and their well-being opposed to a crew that detests me and will not perform to the best of their abilities, then so be it.
Motoko Kasaki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-08-28 20:39:56 UTC
Any crews I take on are generally employees of LDPS and as such, as other Capsuleers have explained, any costs that are incurred are contractual in nature. That being said, I do like to set a little aside from my funds to allow the crew to have a meal out or a night on the port at least once a month, for as others have quite rightly said, they are an integral part of the operation of my vessel. However I am also thier captain and they are my crew, there is an important distinction to be drawn here. They have their role to fulfil, I have mine. Fraternization and over-familiarity are detrimental to the health of the whole.

Glory to the State.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#84 - 2013-08-28 21:07:30 UTC
Considering the rate at which some of you lose ships, I wonder how those of you that fraternize with your crew manage to handle the emotional stress of the constant loss. Something has to give at some point.
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#85 - 2013-08-28 21:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Caroline Grace
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Considering the rate at which some of you lose ships, I wonder how those of you that fraternize with your crew manage to handle the emotional stress of the constant loss. Something has to give at some point.

Pardon me, but I believe there is no such thing as a constant loss of your crew, if you know what you are doing. 99.9% of the crew survive by leaving the ship in an emergency escape pods. Because in most cases (before the structural integrity hits zero on your ship) there is plenty of time for your crew to get into those pods.

That applies for high security space, of course. In more dangerous places of the universe, or when executing so called "ganking" by yourself, I believe security measures are on much higher level, so I imagine when a capsuleer is going into fight, everyone is somewhat expected to quickly abandon their ship and in general the crew is minimalized as much as possible.

The loss and emotional stress come from situations where your ship goes down extremely quick (so called "one shots"), for example in 1-5 seconds, or when a catastrophic disasters happen to your ship integrity or life support etc. Also when some fellow crew members don't manage to get into pods at time or when some unpredictable situation occurs.

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#86 - 2013-08-28 22:33:56 UTC
I don't have the luxury of sending non-essential personnel to the pods when shields fail - not even in a cruiser. Believe me, average crew losses are higher than you clearly think.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#87 - 2013-08-28 22:38:59 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I don't have the luxury of sending non-essential personnel to the pods when shields fail - not even in a cruiser. Believe me, average crew losses are higher than you clearly think.

That might be true for the combat part. As a hauler lady, I rarely ever go into a battle or into dangerous parts of space (unless I'm drunk from drinking Quafe), so my observations come simply from my experience in high security space.

I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.
Motoko Kasaki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-08-28 22:41:39 UTC
Caroline Grace wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I don't have the luxury of sending non-essential personnel to the pods when shields fail - not even in a cruiser. Believe me, average crew losses are higher than you clearly think.

That might be true for the combat part. As a hauler lady, I rarely ever go into a battle or into dangerous parts of space (unless I'm drunk from drinking Quafe), so my observations come simply from my experience in high security space.



It is my understanding that high security space can be just as dangerous as the low security areas to those who do not take adequate precautions.
Sorry if I speak out of turn.

Glory to the State.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#89 - 2013-08-28 23:09:08 UTC
For reference, Ms. Grace, I dug up an old Galnet article.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

While I've no doubt that these statistics vary based on precautions and circumstances, until you're in a larger ship, most crew likely won't have escape pods close enough to reach in time. A ship can go from entirely safe to wreckage in ten seconds, easily -- or it can last minutes, giving time for evacuation of non-essential personnel.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#90 - 2013-08-28 23:34:01 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Considering the rate at which some of you lose ships, I wonder how those of you that fraternize with your crew manage to handle the emotional stress of the constant loss. Something has to give at some point.


I enjoy flying frigates for more than their tactical roles and the fact I enjoy going fast, they don't require crew.

Some might find the concept callous, but I think it's kinder on oneself not to attach faces to the names of crew personnel. Statistics of loss have the benefit of being impersonal enough to permit me to do the job required. It used to affect me deeply once, seeing young men and women screaming, burnt, bloodied and broken on the docks.

These days? I don't know. I guess one can get used to anything and become inured to death and human suffering eventually in order to survive the emotional toll.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#91 - 2013-08-29 00:21:15 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Considering the rate at which some of you lose ships, I wonder how those of you that fraternize with your crew manage to handle the emotional stress of the constant loss. Something has to give at some point.


I enjoy flying frigates for more than their tactical roles and the fact I enjoy going fast, they don't require crew.

Some might find the concept callous, but I think it's kinder on oneself not to attach faces to the names of crew personnel. Statistics of loss have the benefit of being impersonal enough to permit me to do the job required. It used to affect me deeply once, seeing young men and women screaming, burnt, bloodied and broken on the docks.

These days? I don't know. I guess one can get used to anything and become inured to death and human suffering eventually in order to survive the emotional toll.


Sometimes, having a crew makes the business of flying the stars too much like a business. With the great expanses of God's creation before us, it seems we have made the infinite cosmos full of drudgery. Everyone should sometimes take a frigate to jump through random gates, seeing the stars before them, and go where the Lord shepherds them. Perhaps your reasons are not so callous, after all. Why take a crew with you when you wish to take your own journey?

I would advise against devaluing the lives you see spent on your own docks. While it may be a grave burden on your heart, we should all be reminded that the docks of our enemies will see similar scenes. That is not to say that military action is to always be avoided, but we should know the far-reaching consequences of our actions before we take the path to combat.

Luckily, we are always furnished with a bevy of targets whose toll against the universe is always greater than its worth. In our space, we call them Blood Raiders. If one ever finds oneself questioning the health of the soul, one could fly out to one of their outposts. Truly a faction worth every bit of spent fuel to kill.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#92 - 2013-08-29 00:54:07 UTC
Mr. Baracca,

I am a private military contractor, war is my business and violence is my profession. If I began to have serious issues regarding the loss of human life I would no longer be in the business and profession I find myself in. I am not hired to have emotional issues, I am hired to deploy force in the interests of my clients. If I had to shed tears every time my personnel are killed or wounded I would no longer be able to do my job.

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. You learn to deal with death and move on, or you don't.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#93 - 2013-08-29 01:03:09 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Mr. Baracca,

I am a private military contractor, war is my business and violence is my profession. If I began to have serious issues regarding the loss of human life I would no longer be in the business and profession I find myself in. I am not hired to have emotional issues, I am hired to deploy force in the interests of my clients. If I had to shed tears every time my personnel are killed or wounded I would no longer be able to do my job.

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. You learn to deal with death and move on, or you don't.


Well you certainly don't need to cry about it, but even you must admit that if you have absolutely no regard for the well-being of your crew, considering them simple numbers or whatever truly callous people do, you would soon find yourself divested of good crew members. High-caliber engineers don't tend to board ships with captains who are likely to get them killed or join corporations that are likely to assign them to said captains.

Also, I do find that any person should keep in mind that the people they kill are brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, and so on. I think to ignore that and to treat that fact coldly indicates something of a lack of character. Rather, one should understand the costs and keep them in mind. When we do not, especially as capsuleers, we have a tendency to stop killing by necessity and to start killing for recreation.

Certainly the fact that you still even bother looking at the bloody crewmen on the dock would indicate you are not completely insensitive to their suffering. Thinking that a certain ill is necessary is quite different to not thinking about it at all.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Motoko Kasaki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-08-29 01:10:39 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Mr. Baracca,

I am a private military contractor, war is my business and violence is my profession. If I began to have serious issues regarding the loss of human life I would no longer be in the business and profession I find myself in. I am not hired to have emotional issues, I am hired to deploy force in the interests of my clients. If I had to shed tears every time my personnel are killed or wounded I would no longer be able to do my job.

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. You learn to deal with death and move on, or you don't.


Well you certainly don't need to cry about it, but even you must admit that if you have absolutely no regard for the well-being of your crew, considering them simple numbers or whatever truly callous people do, you would soon find yourself divested of good crew members. High-caliber engineers don't tend to board ships with captains who are likely to get them killed or join corporations that are likely to assign them to said captains.

Also, I do find that any person should keep in mind that the people they kill are brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, and so on. I think to ignore that and to treat that fact coldly indicates something of a lack of character. Rather, one should understand the costs and keep them in mind. When we do not, especially as capsuleers, we have a tendency to stop killing by necessity and to start killing for recreation.

Certainly the fact that you still even bother looking at the bloody crewmen on the dock would indicate you are not completely insensitive to their suffering. Thinking that a certain ill is necessary is quite different to not thinking about it at all.


If I may comment at this juncture. I may be a new capsuleer but I'm... well I've done my fair share of killing, let us put it that way.
When the time comes to pull the trigger, the fact that that person may or may not have brothers or sisters or sick cats depending on them is irrelevant. The ultimate fact is that they are in the same arena as me and they are attempting to kill me, oir else I am under orders to kill them. At that point it becomes a very simple matter of pulling a trigger before they can pull thiers, or detonate thier bombs. I understand things are somewhat different for you capsuleers but that does not change anything in my book. They are there, they are attempting to kill me or I am under orders to kill or arrest them. End of discussion. Anything else is... well it doesn't help your own mental stability to dwell on it, put it that way.

I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn or interrupting.

Glory to the State.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#95 - 2013-08-29 01:26:15 UTC
Motoko Kasaki wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Mr. Baracca,

I am a private military contractor, war is my business and violence is my profession. If I began to have serious issues regarding the loss of human life I would no longer be in the business and profession I find myself in. I am not hired to have emotional issues, I am hired to deploy force in the interests of my clients. If I had to shed tears every time my personnel are killed or wounded I would no longer be able to do my job.

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. You learn to deal with death and move on, or you don't.


Well you certainly don't need to cry about it, but even you must admit that if you have absolutely no regard for the well-being of your crew, considering them simple numbers or whatever truly callous people do, you would soon find yourself divested of good crew members. High-caliber engineers don't tend to board ships with captains who are likely to get them killed or join corporations that are likely to assign them to said captains.

Also, I do find that any person should keep in mind that the people they kill are brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, and so on. I think to ignore that and to treat that fact coldly indicates something of a lack of character. Rather, one should understand the costs and keep them in mind. When we do not, especially as capsuleers, we have a tendency to stop killing by necessity and to start killing for recreation.

Certainly the fact that you still even bother looking at the bloody crewmen on the dock would indicate you are not completely insensitive to their suffering. Thinking that a certain ill is necessary is quite different to not thinking about it at all.


If I may comment at this juncture. I may be a new capsuleer but I'm... well I've done my fair share of killing, let us put it that way.
When the time comes to pull the trigger, the fact that that person may or may not have brothers or sisters or sick cats depending on them is irrelevant. The ultimate fact is that they are in the same arena as me and they are attempting to kill me, oir else I am under orders to kill them. At that point it becomes a very simple matter of pulling a trigger before they can pull thiers, or detonate thier bombs. I understand things are somewhat different for you capsuleers but that does not change anything in my book. They are there, they are attempting to kill me or I am under orders to kill or arrest them. End of discussion. Anything else is... well it doesn't help your own mental stability to dwell on it, put it that way.

I apologize if I'm speaking out of turn or interrupting.


No, of course not! Thus is the concept of mass communications, my dear.

I think perhaps people think I am advocating too much in the way of navel-gazing. I simply think it is helpful to remember that. Certainly, if you are in a life or death scenario, I don't think that leaving a son fatherless is any worse than if they had killed you. In that case, I would certainly say you would be right in doing your job.

I would say that some of the empires' more extreme excesses would easily be curbed if we remembered who we were murdering. I often fly into local space and destroy anyone I have to in order to earn the local trust. That is usually the local pirate faction, but could be others. Regardless, I do make sure I keep my perspective. You stop people when they are doing wrong, not simply in order to inflict statistical losses. I have seen too many farms vaporized in the name of government security to be comfortable with completely disregarding the sanctity of life as a few numbers.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-08-30 16:14:45 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Mr. Baracca,

I am a private military contractor, war is my business and violence is my profession. If I began to have serious issues regarding the loss of human life I would no longer be in the business and profession I find myself in. I am not hired to have emotional issues, I am hired to deploy force in the interests of my clients. If I had to shed tears every time my personnel are killed or wounded I would no longer be able to do my job.

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. You learn to deal with death and move on, or you don't.


Well you certainly don't need to cry about it, but even you must admit that if you have absolutely no regard for the well-being of your crew, considering them simple numbers or whatever truly callous people do, you would soon find yourself divested of good crew members. High-caliber engineers don't tend to board ships with captains who are likely to get them killed or join corporations that are likely to assign them to said captains.

Also, I do find that any person should keep in mind that the people they kill are brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, and so on. I think to ignore that and to treat that fact coldly indicates something of a lack of character. Rather, one should understand the costs and keep them in mind. When we do not, especially as capsuleers, we have a tendency to stop killing by necessity and to start killing for recreation.

Certainly the fact that you still even bother looking at the bloody crewmen on the dock would indicate you are not completely insensitive to their suffering. Thinking that a certain ill is necessary is quite different to not thinking about it at all.


Such is the burden of command huh? Get too close and the people you lose weighs heavily on your conscience. Too distant and people accuse you of being soulless. To borrow an old term i heard from a fellow Gallente corpmate, "C'est la vie. There is just no pleasing people!".
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#97 - 2013-08-30 17:43:12 UTC
Confliktus wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
John Caligan wrote:
I've always been a firm believer that a strong captain-crew relationship is what makes a ship run best.

Nope. That's what an XO is for. Crew needs someone for that who actually walks on two legs and sees what they see when they are in the thick of it.

You are needed because the best way known to humanity to co-ordinate a ship is to give it a spirit. You are, essentially, a brain in a pod of goo, virtuals lying to it and convincing it it is a spaceship and implant feeds hijacking your brainpower to do things that would otherwise require a supercomputer. Essentially, you are a glorified automatic targeting and navigation system with motivations of its own.

The crew don't need you to pretend you are one of them and feel all warm and fuzzy by your awesome ability to connect with baseliners. They need you to do your freaking job and let them do theirs.

Else


Good lady i trust you never had to clone jump from your pod into "your body" on any given emergency to fight alongside your crew...

One of our jobs is to do exactly that, being able to be there when needed and to have the crew know that you are more then a glorified ship control system hanging on a pod full of goo like you said.

I for one enjoy coming out of the shell and experience human interaction now and then.


No. That is not our job. If you leave the ship without an active capsule in an emergency, you are risking the crew for what you, accurately, describe as your enjoyment of human interaction.

There's beds and tables enough on docksides for your enjoyment. When on your ship, do you gods-be-damned job.

Else
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2013-08-31 00:35:47 UTC
The crew of my ships is important, and something i treat as a familly i have never had, ever since i started as a capsular, i have still not lost a ship, yes its been damaged, there been injuries, a few casulties, but iwe allways done what i can to balance and eliminate factors to stack missions in my favour and so far, i feel the outcome of it, is satisfactory.

Flying a Rattlesnake Battleship, ewen with the latest drone tech, i have alot of crew to care for and to run the ships systems, and since many of the crew members been with me for almost a year now, i highly value their skill and experience, and alot of the time i actually pilot the ship from the bridge, the pod is close by, amd the fact, that my ships shields offer far more protection then what most pirate ships within the ecuation is capable of penetrating them. And also the fact that iwe grown accustomed to being with the crew, and it helped me with social interaction
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2013-08-31 00:45:18 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
It may sound cold, but you'll grow out of it.


Yes, very quickly.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-08-31 09:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Pilot Ivory, you realise that if what you say about piloting from the bridge is true (which I personally doubt) then you're needlessly placing their lives and your own at increased risk just for the sake of a little face-to-face human contact?

Your presence in the pod has a profound impact on the performance of the ship. Every facet of the ship's performance, from its navigational performance to the effective protection offered by its shield and armor to the capacity and recharge time of the capacitor, it's all rendered more effective by the presence and constant attention of a capsuleer. Not by just a little bit, either - quite often the minimum performance increase exceeds 25%. Rattlesnakes in particular go from being a somewhat mediocre vessel when flown by Guristas baseliner forces to being the kind of combat monster that saw a lot of use in the alliance tournament.

The reason your ship's shields are that durable? Is because the equations to keep them stable are being run through your brain. I've blown up enough Rattlesnakes in my time to know that without the pod pilot, they're alarmingly fragile. You ever see what a volley of well-aimed 425mm railguns do to a rattlesnake that doesn't have a capsuleer? The shields vanish in MUCH less time than even the fastest capsule gantry can get you locked in and submerged.

There are two options - you can either make fluffy-huggy with your crew and put them all in needless danger by flying around in a fragile deathtrap just to sate your thirst for social contact, or you can do your damn job properly by staying in the pod, keeping the ship running at peak performance and giving them all the best chance of living to get back to dock.

Lest you think I'm accusing you of being either incompetent or a liar, spare yourself the trouble of wondering - I am. And I very much hope it's the latter.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders