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Cloaking device with fuel

First post First post
Author
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2013-08-14 19:15:23 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.


So it's people who log in but don't DO anything that you have an issue with, I see. Going back to a very basic question, how exactly is someone who's not doing anything, who can not interact with you and who you cannot interact with, causing an issue for you?


Hes not causing an issue for being afk. He does get an advantage for being able to go afk. What the ****.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.

RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2013-08-14 19:18:49 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Hes not causing an issue for being afk. He does get an advantage for being able to go afk. What the ****.


I don't know what the ****, tell us why you have an issue with people going AFK. Lots of folks go AFK. Why is that bad? What exactly is the advantage? Aren't you allowed to go AFK?

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#83 - 2013-08-14 19:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.


And as previously said: You do not know if a player is AFK and can never know and the only reason you know that someone is in the system with you is because of Local. If you nerf cloaks for AFK Players you nerf them for all Cov-Ops\Cloak using people so you are in fact affecting me, AFK or not.


The problem is not knowing if someone is afk or not, the problem is an inactive character influencing the game without actions from the player.
Why does the afk player must have the upper hand?
And again, it's not a nerf to the ground. It's not a cloak disabling. It's an iteration over the mechanics. It shouldn't be a radical change for anyone other than the afk cloakers.


So what's to stop you going AFK as well? How does an AFK player really affect you since they are AWAY FROM KEYBOARD? I;m not shouting that just making it clear as day just what AFK is in case there was any doubt.

I'm seeing a pattern here.

EDIT:

AWAY FROM KEYBOARD e.g. Having a bodily function, getting a drink, answering the door, baby crying and needs attention, telephone call, going to the pub, unexpected visitors.

EDIT 2:

Have you ever thought that people with limited game time skills as Cov-Ops so that they have the ability to go AFK cloaked because of RL situations that mean that they might need to? A new father\mother who has to attend to his\ her baby every few hours and can't go to Null and back to Hi Sec to dock up because it would be pointless uses cloaking to ensure they can still enjoy the game and play where they want to play? No, I didn't think so.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2013-08-14 19:22:01 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

I'm seeing a pattern here.


The same pattern that always seems to show up in these threads, actually...

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2013-08-14 19:23:48 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin.

As to scouting strategy, this makes it ineffective for any meaningful use. It creates stability in a game intended to encourage chaos.

Noone wants to play anything called Fields of Peace, where you watch crops grow and paint dry.

If you want a balanced way to handle local and cloaking, read the links in my signature.

Dropping the amount of time you can stay cloaked, especially when you leave already overpowered PvE defenses in place, does bad things to game balance.

Ask yourself this:

If you can operate aligned, and use local to get away from hostiles 100% of the time with this minimal preparation, what risk is left for you?

The only effect you are achieving with cloaking fuel, is an end to the stalemate created when they refuse to otherwise leave PvE systems.

This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?

Nag'o wrote:
[quote=Nikk Narrel]
You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin.

As to scouting strategy, this makes it ineffective for any meaningful use. It creates stability in a game intended to encourage chaos.

Noone wants to play anything called Fields of Peace, where you watch crops grow and paint dry.

If you want a balanced way to handle local and cloaking, read the links in my signature.

Dropping the amount of time you can stay cloaked, especially when you leave already overpowered PvE defenses in place, does bad things to game balance.

Ask yourself this:

If you can operate aligned, and use local to get away from hostiles 100% of the time with this minimal preparation, what risk is left for you?

The only effect you are achieving with cloaking fuel, is an end to the stalemate created when they refuse to otherwise leave PvE systems.

This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?


Our biggest reward must be an remarkable game experience. That said, the purpose of adding a restraint to cloak is exactly removing one game aspect that ils like watching paint dry. It's not about killing the risk to the other pilots in the system, it's about adding risk to the cloaked pilot. Like I said before, being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot. No mechanic in the game, except npc station docking and logging off should be like this.

Yes, a submarine can stay underwater for a long time. Nonetheless it does have to go to the surface sometime.
Players shouldn't be allowed to do things like cloaking a ship in space and then go to work or wathever that takes a long time gamewise afk with no risk of losing that ship.
Let's say the fuel or whatever mechanic is implemented allows the pilot to stay cloaked intermittently for 1 hour or maybe 2 hours. How game breaking is that for someone actively playing the game?





Referring to the marked content in the quote:

Excuse me, but is it you who pays their monthly subscription fee?
What do you care about how people decide to spend their lifetime?

I seriously think that you and all likeminded pilots out there are going way too far with all this matter about cloaking.

Eve Online has the current cloaking mechanisms and methods because Eve Online needs them.

Furthermore, did it ever come into yours and all other likeminded pilots minds that all the unpleasant feelings the cloaking causes to all of us are intentionally been put there?

You feel uncomfortable because of the cloaking puts you in a disadvantageous position?
(for I believe that this is exactly the reason for your nerf argumentations, not the afk cloaking - you just use the "afk-cloaking" as a veil to hide your intentions, which are, to simply not possibly be stalked upon, like by a cloaked Legion searching for prey.)

Well yes, thats intended by the developers and the vast majority of the community welcomes this game mechanics of cloaking, with all its goods and bads.

However, every ship can cloak in Eve, preconditioned that the ship has the highslot, CPU, and PG, so what stops you from getting one cloaking device too?

If you think that cloaking is overpowered and thus needs a nerf, well may I give you an advice you already know by yourself, but here it is:
"Buy yourself your own cloak and be overpowered."

tl;dr
Get yourself a Legion, too, once you can afford it."

Fly safe, sir. o7


It's not about what they do in their lives. It's about an empty vessel in the game universe influencing the odds towards inactive players. Competitive games must be balanced to succeed.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#86 - 2013-08-14 19:24:18 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
I'm talking about AFK cloaking dude, not simply cloaking. Cloaking is great. What is not great is someone being able to cloak his ship in space and just leave it there while not playing the game.


And as previously said: You do not know if a player is AFK and can never know and the only reason you know that someone is in the system with you is because of Local. If you nerf cloaks for AFK Players you nerf them for all Cov-Ops\Cloak using people so you are in fact affecting me, AFK or not.


The problem is not knowing if someone is afk or not, the problem is an inactive character influencing the game without actions from the player.
Why does the afk player must have the upper hand?
And again, it's not a nerf to the ground. It's not a cloak disabling. It's an iteration over the mechanics. It shouldn't be a radical change for anyone other than the afk cloakers.




How exactly does someone AFK and cloaked, influence the game and which mechanic do they use to do this?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#87 - 2013-08-14 19:25:31 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:


EDIT:

AWAY FROM KEYBOARD e.g. Having a bodily function, getting a drink, answering the door, baby crying and needs attention, telephone call, going to the pub, unexpected visitors.

EDIT 2:

Have you ever thought that people with limited game time skills as Cov-Ops so that they have the ability to go AFK cloaked because of RL situations that mean that they might need to? A new father\mother who has to attend to his\ her baby every few hours and can't go to Null and back to Hi Sec to dock up because it would be pointless uses cloaking to ensure they can still enjoy the game and play where they want to play? No, I didn't think so.


In case you missed EDIT 1 and EDIT 2 Nag'o.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2013-08-14 19:30:26 UTC
People AFK cloaking can dictate engagement more easily than people playing the game actively. You can go afk for 1 hour, 2 hours, a whole day, who knows when you will come back? The risk for any target in the system is permanent. The risk for the afk cloaker is zero, permanently.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#89 - 2013-08-14 19:33:58 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
People AFK cloaking can dictate engagement more easily than people playing the game actively. You can go afk for 1 hour, 2 hours, a whole day, who knows when you will come back? The risk for any target in the system is permanent. The risk for the afk cloaker is zero, permanently.

People who are cloaked can only engage other pilots.

The other pilots, presumably, are either logged off, in a POS, docked up, or themselves cloaked.

It takes two to tango, as the expression goes. At least the cloaked vessel is on the dance floor.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2013-08-14 19:35:26 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
People AFK cloaking can dictate engagement more easily than people playing the game actively. You can go afk for 1 hour, 2 hours, a whole day, who knows when you will come back? The risk for any target in the system is permanent. The risk for the afk cloaker is zero, permanently.


The risk posed to any target in the system by an AFK Cloaked ship is ZERO. Permanently. The only risk is erroneously perceived and rests in the mind of the residents of that system. Anyone that doesn't cower in station at the slightest gust of the solar wind on their hull plating knows that an AFK pilot can do NOTHING.

Your arguments are wearing thin as you repeat them over and over again, as so many have done before you. What's showing through is fear and a desire to remove any possibility of the hint of a suggestion of any risk whatsoever.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#91 - 2013-08-14 19:36:13 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
People AFK cloaking can dictate engagement more easily than people playing the game actively. You can go afk for 1 hour, 2 hours, a whole day, who knows when you will come back? The risk for any target in the system is permanent. The risk for the afk cloaker is zero, permanently.

People who are cloaked can only engage other pilots.

The other pilots, presumably, are either logged off, in a POS, docked up, or themselves cloaked.

It takes two to tango, as the expression goes. At least the cloaked vessel is on the dance floor.


I think you missed the point on this one Nikk...the offending cloaker is AFK...therefore not on the dancefloor but might be...who knows...
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2013-08-14 19:37:14 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
People who are cloaked can only engage other pilots.


Nikk, did that sentence come out right?

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#93 - 2013-08-14 19:38:39 UTC
I can almost hear the creak of door hinges as Nag'o stealthily opens the door to exit...perhaps to go AFK in the thread where we will not fear his presence but will continue to defend our positions...as any person experiencing a cloaker in system should.

Yes, I just posted a stealth "Cloak Exit Person from Thread" analogy Twisted
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#94 - 2013-08-14 19:44:18 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
People who are cloaked can only engage other pilots.


Nikk, did that sentence come out right?

I know, it sounds a bit off.

I originally wrote people who are AFK, but I caught myself, as an AFK person is too busy engaging in something else to play EVE.

But he was talking about the dictating of engaging, and ya just can't do that unless the other pilots are available.
(Obviously they must be uncloaked and at keyboard)

His "Other pilots" aren't available in the first place, was my intended point here Big smile
Mag's
Azn Empire
#95 - 2013-08-14 19:49:24 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
People AFK cloaking can dictate engagement more easily than people playing the game actively. You can go afk for 1 hour, 2 hours, a whole day, who knows when you will come back? The risk for any target in the system is permanent. The risk for the afk cloaker is zero, permanently.
Being AFK means exactly that. Oh and to use the 100% risk free card, it works both ways. For when they are 100% safe from you, you are from them.

You didn't answer the question I asked. So let's take it as red that they influence pilots, but the question remains:

Whilst they are cloaked and AFK, which mechanic do they use to influence you?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2013-08-14 19:54:42 UTC
You people are making no sense. You're obviously more concerned about me than the points I made.
I will read everything but only reply to reasonable posts about the thread topic.
I have a job, my sign is sagittarius and I love cats and long walks in the beach?

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#97 - 2013-08-14 19:57:33 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
You people are making no sense. You're obviously more concerned about me than the points I made.
I will read everything but only reply to reasonable posts about the thread topic.
I have a job, my sign is sagittarius and I love cats and long walks in the beach?


Oh we might be a match...if this was a dating site! As it's not please find that all the replies above are in response to your posts I'm afraid as you constantly recite the same thing of "AFK Cloaker...this, that and the other"
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-08-14 20:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
RoAnnon wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
People AFK cloaking can dictate engagement more easily than people playing the game actively. You can go afk for 1 hour, 2 hours, a whole day, who knows when you will come back? The risk for any target in the system is permanent. The risk for the afk cloaker is zero, permanently.


The risk posed to any target in the system by an AFK Cloaked ship is ZERO. Permanently. The only risk is erroneously perceived and rests in the mind of the residents of that system. Anyone that doesn't cower in station at the slightest gust of the solar wind on their hull plating knows that an AFK pilot can do NOTHING.

Your arguments are wearing thin as you repeat them over and over again, as so many have done before you. What's showing through is fear and a desire to remove any possibility of the hint of a suggestion of any risk whatsoever.


By being with a cloaked hostile in the system you risk being jumped anytime. By being cloaked hunting in a system you risk losing time, but you're not, since you're afk doing something else.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.

Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#99 - 2013-08-14 20:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:
By being with a cloaked hostile in the system you risk being jumped anytime. By being cloaked hunting in a system you risk losing time, but you're not, since you're afk doing something else.


Then they aren't hunting, they're AFK and so 0 threat. And do you even know that they are a cloaked hostile in the first place? The only reason you know a hostile is in the system is because Local tells you so.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#100 - 2013-08-14 20:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Also:

Nag'o wrote:
By being with a cloaked hostile in the system you risk being jumped anytime


You risk this by any hostile ship being in system, be they cloaked or otherwise. I'm not seeing your point.