These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Cloaking device with fuel

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#41 - 2013-08-14 01:14:51 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

Not to descend into meme exchanges, but I would point out a detail.

You only know who is docked, when you yourself can dock.
Otherwise there exists an uncertainty that cannot be avoided.

For a hostile entering a system, with a dozen people in local, two things come to mind.

1. Are they in space, or docked up in that Outpost(s)
2. How the heck does he even know who is in the system when he can't even dock where they are located?


You're talking about Outposts not regular stations. In this case the defenders are already favored for their position. Having an Outpost in the systems grants them the privilege.

Which does not begin to address how a hostile pilot, who is unable to dock at all in described outpost, can know who is in the system this way.

Why are we spoonfeeding this intel to hostile pilots?

With intel channels already available for sov holders, Local is currently a far greater liability than advantage.


Yes, but let's say the hostile ship is using a cloak itself, wich is most probably the case.
Consider the cloak uses some material as fuel like the OP sugested. How much intel will the hostile pilot be able to provide before himself needs to resuply. That depends on the cloaking mechanic but no matter what it is, he will be less time cloaked than the people in the system, because that being their system they should have easier access to resources.

This does add more strategy to scouting than just leaving an afk alt in a system for coming back at random times.

It's just a matter of cloaking not being 100% safe. It should be either an emergency or an strategy resort. If you want safety you should enter a POS shield or dock in a station.
No matter how autonomous they are, even submarines have to resuply sometime if they want their crew to survive.

You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin.

As to scouting strategy, this makes it ineffective for any meaningful use. It creates stability in a game intended to encourage chaos.

Noone wants to play anything called Fields of Peace, where you watch crops grow and paint dry.

If you want a balanced way to handle local and cloaking, read the links in my signature.

Dropping the amount of time you can stay cloaked, especially when you leave already overpowered PvE defenses in place, does bad things to game balance.

Ask yourself this:

If you can operate aligned, and use local to get away from hostiles 100% of the time with this minimal preparation, what risk is left for you?

The only effect you are achieving with cloaking fuel, is an end to the stalemate created when they refuse to otherwise leave PvE systems.

This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2013-08-14 02:10:42 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin.

As to scouting strategy, this makes it ineffective for any meaningful use. It creates stability in a game intended to encourage chaos.

Noone wants to play anything called Fields of Peace, where you watch crops grow and paint dry.

If you want a balanced way to handle local and cloaking, read the links in my signature.

Dropping the amount of time you can stay cloaked, especially when you leave already overpowered PvE defenses in place, does bad things to game balance.

Ask yourself this:

If you can operate aligned, and use local to get away from hostiles 100% of the time with this minimal preparation, what risk is left for you?

The only effect you are achieving with cloaking fuel, is an end to the stalemate created when they refuse to otherwise leave PvE systems.

This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?


Our biggest reward must be an remarkable game experience. That said, the purpose of adding a restraint to cloak is exactly removing one game aspect that ils like watching paint dry. It's not about killing the risk to the other pilots in the system, it's about adding risk to the cloaked pilot. Like I said before, being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot. No mechanic in the game, except npc station docking and logging off should be like this.

Yes, a submarine can stay underwater for a long time. Nonetheless it does have to go to the surface sometime.
Players shouldn't be allowed to do things like cloaking a ship in space and then go to work or wathever that takes a long time gamewise afk with no risk of losing that ship.
Let's say the fuel or whatever mechanic is implemented allows the pilot to stay cloaked intermittently for 1 hour or maybe 2 hours. How game breaking is that for someone actively playing the game?



Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#43 - 2013-08-14 10:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:

Our biggest reward must be an remarkable game experience. That said, the purpose of adding a restraint to cloak is exactly removing one game aspect that ils like watching paint dry. It's not about killing the risk to the other pilots in the system, it's about adding risk to the cloaked pilot. Like I said before, being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot. No mechanic in the game, except npc station docking and logging off should be like this.

Yes, a submarine can stay underwater for a long time. Nonetheless it does have to go to the surface sometime.
Players shouldn't be allowed to do things like cloaking a ship in space and then go to work or wathever that takes a long time gamewise afk with no risk of losing that ship.
Let's say the fuel or whatever mechanic is implemented allows the pilot to stay cloaked intermittently for 1 hour or maybe 2 hours. How game breaking is that for someone actively playing the game?


Actually quite game breaking if you take WH residents into the equation. Where would you get this fuel and does it have a special hold for particular ships? How many hours can be used before you need to refill that hold? This limits the length of ops of a covert pilot compared to a standard ship. Can this be manufactured in a WH? If not then how will WH residents get their fuel?

Now take the story earlier of the pilot who went 26 jumps to recon a target, it needs to be able to go from one side of the EVE Universe to the other and back at the bare minimum as you know that a standard ship can and what if you are stuck in a wormhole and run out of fuel (as someone else said)? You drop cloak and you're dead. No more expensive implants and the loss of your ship.

In fact introduce fuel requirements for all ships in EVE then that'd be balanced and watch the subscriptions nose-dive.

You've just killed Cov-Ops and WH's as part of EVE.

EDIT:

How long can submarines stay underwater?

Nuclear-powered submarines can stay submerged for long periods of time. They are designed and manned to stay underwater long enough to support a wide variety of missions, which can last for several months. Submarines have equipment to make oxygen and keep the air safe. Food and supplies are the only limitations on submergence time for a nuclear submarine. Normally, submarines carry a 90-day supply of food.

Source: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/faq.html

So let's introduce the need for Characters to eat as well into the game as you can't use the "it does have to go to the surface sometime" analogy for "submarine" like behavior. But ALL characters have to eat not just Cov-Ops pilots.

Seems a bit like Second Life or SIMs now doesn't it...and that's just where people will head: out of the door and into something else.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-08-14 11:48:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
fail post

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-08-14 11:59:53 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Nag'o wrote:

Our biggest reward must be an remarkable game experience. That said, the purpose of adding a restraint to cloak is exactly removing one game aspect that ils like watching paint dry. It's not about killing the risk to the other pilots in the system, it's about adding risk to the cloaked pilot. Like I said before, being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot. No mechanic in the game, except npc station docking and logging off should be like this.

Yes, a submarine can stay underwater for a long time. Nonetheless it does have to go to the surface sometime.
Players shouldn't be allowed to do things like cloaking a ship in space and then go to work or wathever that takes a long time gamewise afk with no risk of losing that ship.
Let's say the fuel or whatever mechanic is implemented allows the pilot to stay cloaked intermittently for 1 hour or maybe 2 hours. How game breaking is that for someone actively playing the game?


Actually quite game breaking if you take WH residents into the equation. Where would you get this fuel and does it have a special hold for particular ships? How many hours can be used before you need to refill that hold? This limits the length of ops of a covert pilot compared to a standard ship. Can this be manufactured in a WH? If not then how will WH residents get their fuel?

Now take the story earlier of the pilot who went 26 jumps to recon a target, it needs to be able to go from one side of the EVE Universe to the other and back at the bare minimum as you know that a standard ship can and what if you are stuck in a wormhole and run out of fuel (as someone else said)? You drop cloak and you're dead. No more expensive implants and the loss of your ship.

In fact introduce fuel requirements for all ships in EVE then that'd be balanced and watch the subscriptions nose-dive.

You've just killed Cov-Ops and WH's as part of EVE.

EDIT:

How long can submarines stay underwater?

Nuclear-powered submarines can stay submerged for long periods of time. They are designed and manned to stay underwater long enough to support a wide variety of missions, which can last for several months. Submarines have equipment to make oxygen and keep the air safe. Food and supplies are the only limitations on submergence time for a nuclear submarine. Normally, submarines carry a 90-day supply of food.

Source: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/faq.html

So let's introduce the need for Characters to eat as well into the game as you can't use the "it does have to go to the surface sometime" analogy for "submarine" like behavior. But ALL characters have to eat not just Cov-Ops pilots.

Seems a bit like Second Life or SIMs now doesn't it...and that's just where people will head: out of the door and into something else.


WH residents already have to haul POS fuel, so invisible juice will just be another asset on their trips to highsec. Or it could be some stuff they find in the WH already, who knows? I'm just considering the general idea, balancing stuff is dev job.

The time a ship can stay cloaked, like ANY other feature in the game, will depend on the ship and module type used. A cov-ops cloak could use more fuel than a prototype cloak, or a prototype cloak could use only capacitor while the cov-ops requires a specialized fuel. The ship class is determinant on the type of stuff you want to do.

This is about adding depth to the mechanic, not making it more realistic. You can't fit a nuclear reactor to a boat and make it submergible so stop throwing **** like 'let's make characters eat' or 'let's make all ships use fuel hur dur'. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.


Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#46 - 2013-08-14 12:08:50 UTC
Quote:
WH residents already have to haul POS fuel, so invisible juice will just be another asset on their trips to highsec


And why should they be made to pick up this invisible juice? Because you don't like the "Maybe AFK Cloaky" in your system?

Actually you'll find that discussing balance and where ideas lead to do add to the discussion and should be thought about and not left to the Developers, it's called reasoning out the idea. Also please refrain from profanity in your replies as they definitely don't add anything to the discussion.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-08-14 12:41:33 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Quote:
WH residents already have to haul POS fuel, so invisible juice will just be another asset on their trips to highsec


And why should they be made to pick up this invisible juice? Because you don't like the "Maybe AFK Cloaky" in your system?

Actually you'll find that discussing balance and where ideas lead to do add to the discussion and should be thought about and not left to the Developers, it's called reasoning out the idea. Also please refrain from profanity in your replies as they definitely don't add anything to the discussion.


Sorry, I tend to use big words a lot. I don't like popo arguments.

And this is not about me, it's about the game. I don't even own a system. ****, I'm not even on a real corp.

One thing is discussing balance of a thing that is already implemented. Another completely different is what you're doing, asking me to give you precise numbers to a general idea.
I don't need to tell you exactly how much capacitor units, or wich kind of fuel, for exactly how much time the cloaked ships should use to reason out the idea. That requires a broad knowledge of aspects of the game players don't always have access to. It's dev job. When discussing something that is not implemented, our 'job' is to generally especulate about the implications of the said idea.


Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#48 - 2013-08-14 12:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Quote:
WH residents already have to haul POS fuel, so invisible juice will just be another asset on their trips to highsec


And why should they be made to pick up this invisible juice? Because you don't like the "Maybe AFK Cloaky" in your system?

Actually you'll find that discussing balance and where ideas lead to do add to the discussion and should be thought about and not left to the Developers, it's called reasoning out the idea. Also please refrain from profanity in your replies as they definitely don't add anything to the discussion.


Sorry, I tend to use big words a lot. I don't like popo arguments.

And this is not about me, it's about the game. I don't even own a system. ****, I'm not even on a real corp.

One thing is discussing balance of a thing that is already implemented. Another completely different is what you're doing, asking me to give you precise numbers to a general idea.
I don't need to tell you exactly how much capacitor units, or wich kind of fuel, for exactly how much time the cloaked ships should use to reason out the idea. That requires a broad knowledge of aspects of the game players don't always have access to. It's dev job. When discussing something that is not implemented, our 'job' is to generally especulate about the implications of the said idea.


OK in that I partially agree with you and applaud that reply. We're not experts (well most of us aren't except those Excel Warriors and Min\Max Experts) but we should have some idea of how rough numbers so we can see how this would impact the "26J scout to target" type of player and that gives us a sense of the impact.

I don't want to forum ping-pong with you but Cov-Ops are nerfed so much by being Cov-Ops that using fuel to power a module they were designed to power seems to be against the very design of the ship IMHO.

Now for non-Cov-Ops ships...there might be something in using fuel but that being said (HOLD THE FLAMES ALL YE CLOAK-MWD'ers!) the existing nerf to that is that it kills 80-75% of max velocity and they can't warp while cloaked.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#49 - 2013-08-14 13:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
A very simple and elegant answer from

NERF CLOAKING NOW. - #1 Posted: 2011.10.13 14:53

Jack Carrigan wrote:
Simple answer:

No.

Complex answer:

Cloaking is one of those sciences that was created for the safety of the Covert Ops/Recon/Black Ops/Blockade Runner pilot for the sake of being able to move from point A to point B completely undetected. Furthermore, it allows them to provide valuable intelligence or move valuable materials with minimal risks to themselves.

Now, with all of that said, before you start emo-raging as to how it is completely unfair, I have a simple question. Why should we nerf something that took that pilot a good amount of real time to train, and a good amount of practice to be able to use efficiently and effectively? The answer here is that we shouldn't, as it would suddenly nerf all of those vessels which receive role bonuses to cloaking devices. Thus it would affect more than just your run of the mill random cloaked guy.

And you also figure, sure, humankind can jump millions of tons ships hundreds of LY away, but can't find a "rusty bucket" as you call it. It is because the cloaking device (at least in more popular means) utilizes magnetic resonant fields to bend light, thus rendering the ship invisible to the eye. As for being able to scan it down? Why? There are stealth aircraft, ships and submarines in existence now that do not show up on radar at all, so you figure, using your futuristic argument against you, it would also render the ship incapable of being detected on scanners.

If anything, I think that if a ship is cloaked, the pilot should no longer show up in local, thus leaving everyone in ignorant bliss of his existence.


And that's all she wrote folks.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#50 - 2013-08-14 13:51:42 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
...
This dramatically kills the remaining risk.

We already lost null sec ice from unlimited, to very limited belts like the ore is in.
All because the miners, like me, have no serious risk of being hunted and destroyed by a hostile.

How bad do you want our rewards to be?


Our biggest reward must be an remarkable game experience. That said, the purpose of adding a restraint to cloak is exactly removing one game aspect that ils like watching paint dry. It's not about killing the risk to the other pilots in the system, it's about adding risk to the cloaked pilot. Like I said before, being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot. No mechanic in the game, except npc station docking and logging off should be like this.

I trimmed both sides for simple relevance here.

A point you are ignoring is the fact that the cloaking ship is a counter.

It is currently the ONLY counter not completely neutralized in null sec, by the mechanic of using local in order to get safe before a threat materializes.

As a miner in null, you cannot catch me, unless I screw up. You have no opportunity, no chance.

And, not just me, every PvE player in null also has this same ability.

I can mine or rat, stay aligned, and hit warp the moment you or any possible hostile shows in local.
And before you even finish loading system, I am in warp to a safe POS or be docking, where you have absolutely no chance of touching me.

Bringing in a huge fleet, and crashing down the doors?
Still not gonna happen. You just reinforced the POS or outpost, and I can leave casually, along with my other mates working from that system.

I already lost my unlimited high grade ice, thanks to this pathetic lack of risk. it is now in very limited belts, which usually don't respawn because they are cherry picked and left with scrubs holding them in place.
Yes, we now have a racing game instead.

What will be the next item to get cut back, and how soon will the risk versus reward equation make high sec the logical place to work from.... for L4's it already is.
Mining and ratting could very well be next.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2013-08-14 14:22:36 UTC
You're talking like the idea is to prevent people from cloaking, wich is not. The idea is to limit cloak use so it is not safe to be indefinitely afk with it.
I think it's a cool idea that could add some depth to the mechanic.

I personally don't like jumping to a stationless system with a single person on it and keep wondering if the other player is afk or not. I want to know if I can play some cat and mouse game or if I need to move on to another system for some action.
You say cloaked is nerfed already but how much of an advantage is to be able to do anything you want away from the game to only occasionally check the screen to see if there's some fish on the net? Where's the strategy on that?
Cloaking is incredibly dumbed down the way it is. A little iteration wouldn't hurt.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2013-08-14 14:53:20 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
EVE is so full of horseshit dramaqueens that you can't possibly even BEGIN to consider what COULD be a good idea because it fiddles with a 10 year old bad game mechanic that you exploit.
The fuel idea is good......


No, no it's not a good idea. No one is "exploiting" this game mechanic that is working as intended.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-08-14 14:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
"You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin."

and you may never know... in fact the amount time a nuclear sub can stay submerged is highly classified.

".....being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot."

I have to disagree again with this statement... having personally lost exposed cloaked ships. It's not 100% if you are actively using the cloak in an engagement. As for the "AFK" again they are no threat.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#54 - 2013-08-14 15:05:01 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
"You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin."

and you may never know... in fact the amount time a nuclear sub can stay submerged is highly classified.

".....being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot."

I have to disagree again with this statement... having personally lost exposed cloaked ships. It's not 100% if you are actively using the cloak in an engagement. As for the "AFK" again they are no threat.


Not really that classified:

Quote:
source Official Royal Navy Website
Q:How long can you stay underwater?

Nuclear Submarines are able to produce their own indefinite supply of air, water and power for driving the submarine forward. It's only limitation for staying submerged is the amount of food on board, or if they sustain a major defect.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-08-14 15:09:19 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
The only even remotely acceptable thing I can think of would be that if you cloak, your capacitor stops charging as it's feeding the cloak exclusively. That doesn't really resolve your problem, though, does it. Since if you don't bounce around constantly, you can still AFK cloak forever.


you can stay in station or pos "forever" too.. lets add a timer that not only ejects you every 30 minutes but warps you off to the closest ship in system..... sic. True AFKing even cloaked is not against the EULA and is no threat.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-08-14 15:12:17 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
"You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin."

and you may never know... in fact the amount time a nuclear sub can stay submerged is highly classified.

".....being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot."

I have to disagree again with this statement... having personally lost exposed cloaked ships. It's not 100% if you are actively using the cloak in an engagement. As for the "AFK" again they are no threat.


Not really that classified:

Quote:
source Official Royal Navy Website
Q:How long can you stay underwater?

Nuclear Submarines are able to produce their own indefinite supply of air, water and power for driving the submarine forward. It's only limitation for staying submerged is the amount of food on board, or if they sustain a major defect.

Having held a secret clearance with all caveats and having seen this info, I can tell you that the true length of time a modern sub can stay down is classified.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#57 - 2013-08-14 15:15:32 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
"You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin."

and you may never know... in fact the amount time a nuclear sub can stay submerged is highly classified.

".....being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot."

I have to disagree again with this statement... having personally lost exposed cloaked ships. It's not 100% if you are actively using the cloak in an engagement. As for the "AFK" again they are no threat.


Not really that classified:

Quote:
source Official Royal Navy Website
Q:How long can you stay underwater?

Nuclear Submarines are able to produce their own indefinite supply of air, water and power for driving the submarine forward. It's only limitation for staying submerged is the amount of food on board, or if they sustain a major defect.

Having held a secret clearance with all caveats and having seen this info, I can tell you that the true length of time a modern sub can stay down is classified.


I'm not going to start banging out credentials but people tout "Top Secret" this, that and the other. My post says all that needs to be said: As long as it has provisions it can stay down.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-08-14 15:18:49 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
"You probably don't want to know how long a sub can stay under the waves, just sayin."

and you may never know... in fact the amount time a nuclear sub can stay submerged is highly classified.

".....being able to cloak indenitely is 100% safe for the cloaked pilot."

I have to disagree again with this statement... having personally lost exposed cloaked ships. It's not 100% if you are actively using the cloak in an engagement. As for the "AFK" again they are no threat.


Not really that classified:

Quote:
source Official Royal Navy Website
Q:How long can you stay underwater?

Nuclear Submarines are able to produce their own indefinite supply of air, water and power for driving the submarine forward. It's only limitation for staying submerged is the amount of food on board, or if they sustain a major defect.

Having held a secret clearance with all caveats and having seen this info, I can tell you that the true length of time a modern sub can stay down is classified.


I'm not going to start banging out credentials but people tout "Top Secret" this, that and the other. My post says all that needs to be said: As long as it has provisions it can stay down.

no one is "banging out credentials".. in fact, I can not say more about it. I have spoken my peace on the sub-ject as far as I am allowed.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#59 - 2013-08-14 15:23:28 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
I have spoken my peace on the sub-ject as far as I am allowed.


I saw what you did there...sneaky sneaky lol. Right, let's leave that there then shall we.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#60 - 2013-08-14 15:32:27 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
You're talking like the idea is to prevent people from cloaking, wich is not. The idea is to limit cloak use so it is not safe to be indefinitely afk with it.
I think it's a cool idea that could add some depth to the mechanic.

I personally don't like jumping to a stationless system with a single person on it and keep wondering if the other player is afk or not. I want to know if I can play some cat and mouse game or if I need to move on to another system for some action.
You say cloaked is nerfed already but how much of an advantage is to be able to do anything you want away from the game to only occasionally check the screen to see if there's some fish on the net? Where's the strategy on that?
Cloaking is incredibly dumbed down the way it is. A little iteration wouldn't hurt.

Ok, here is a glossed over detail, that I must point out.

If you limit the amount of time a cloaked pilot can exist, you destroy cloaked threat capability.

Point 1
Pilots interested in PvE ONLY risk exposure with a cloaked presence under the belief that they may be able to do so safely.
Now, obviously pilots prepared to encounter the hostile can fit, and plan strategies that make sense. They are playing the game. Sadly, they are the minority, and will not benefit from your idea.
Other pilots, who are purely gambling that the hostile is AFK, only undock because they think there is no threat. They are killed because if they are wrong, and the hostile is present, they screwed up by being wrong about that threat.

Point 2
What changes if cloaking is limited?
No pilot will be tolerated to undock with a hostile present, more so than ever. Losses look bad on a kill board, and corps often want them to look successful. Sure, some corps and pilots will still risk an obviously active cloaker, but not nearly as much as before.
The frustrated gambler, who before was willing to believe the hostile might really be AFK safely enough to risk exposure? No way! They know any pilot present is using a limited quantity of fuel, and must either leave or be hunted down within a fixed time limit.

Why take a risk, when you know they HAVE to stop cloaking after X amount of time? Just wait for them to leave, one way or another.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...