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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Cloaking device with fuel

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#501 - 2013-08-20 06:07:56 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
RoAnnon wrote:
I still don't get the analogy of an AFK pilot with a bot, since the cloaked, AFK pilot is... away, not doing anything at all, not gathering resources, nor earning ISK income in any way. I've read your previous posts where it's clear you see them as the same as a bot, but other than your own reaction to the AFK pilot, which I point out is YOUR issue and can no way be attributed to the AFK pilot, that pilot is not interacting with the game nor is the in-game character doing anything either.

Obviously you and I are on two completely different wavelengths here and it really appears to me, in the face of all the bull-headed stubbornness in this thread, you and I will never agree and you won't ever be persuaded that your viewpoint is wrong.

The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.


AFK has never been linked to botting, it has never been seen as against the EULA or ToS. It even defies logic to make such a comparison as being AFK does satisfy the definition:

Quote:
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


No third party software is being used. No macros or rapid key strokes are being used. Nothing is being acquired. Nothing is being rewritten or modified or manipulated to acquire anything.

In short, any and all claims that being AFK in any shape or form is botting is mother ****ing ret@rded of the highest degree. Anyone writing is should ****ing biomass their character, uninstall the game, then hit their computer 10 times with a ball peen hammer.

Minimum.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Evanga
DoctorOzz
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#502 - 2013-08-20 06:15:44 UTC
My afk cloaked alt made a cyno on a navy geddon last night, how can that NOT be overpowered!! Big smile
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#503 - 2013-08-20 06:35:01 UTC
No one in EVE has ever been shot at by an AFK cloaked player so there is no need to nerf cloaks.


AFK cloakys already run on a fuel anyway. The fuel is called 'Docked Carebear Tears'.







https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#504 - 2013-08-20 07:56:13 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Sure. The troll itself is a character. That's why I don't take half of the **** in this thread seriously.


The reason you cry troll and don't take responses "seriously" is because they have decimated your arguments.

Your comparisons to market bots which automatically change orders is insane. Botting is against the rules, being afk isn't. A bot is actively changing the state of the game without any input. Being cloaked afk does not change any game state at all, it can't by definition.

Is this how desperate the argument has become, comparing apples to oranges?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#505 - 2013-08-20 08:27:02 UTC
Nag'o wrote:
Why is it impossible to compete with a market bot on the top order game?
Because it keeps acting as a player, updating his orders indefinitely, no matter how many times and for how long real players react to his order changes.

The same goes for the afk cloaker.

A player going to space with an invisible enemy present reacts to that presence in some way. Fitting for pvp, staying more alert, warning his mates... whatever fits his playstyle.
No matter what that reaction is though, there's possibly no way for it to compete with an effect that persists indefinitely.

If there is a human playing the cloaked character he is going to decloak, engage or leave the system sometime.
If there is nobody playing the character, the effect will stay, even through periods of time impossible for a human to keep playing.
Some of the existing credibility you had was lost, when you tried to claim your words as mine. But at the point you suggested that AFKing is the same as botting, any and all credibility you had was lost.

What is clear from this, is a follows:

You believe risk should be removed, to increase rewards.
You've not yet stated why this would be a good thing and in any way balanced.
You wish to nerf cloaks and active play, in order to fix your supposed problem.
You think botting and AFKing are the same. Straight

The fact you now wish to include botting in your argument against AFKing, only goes to show how weak your stance actually is. Although I must say, it was only a matter of time before you made it so laughably obvious.

Moving on.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#506 - 2013-08-20 10:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
How did this even get around to be "Market Botting"? Is Nag'o now suggesting that active Cov-Ops pilots (I say active as you cannot ascertain if they are truly 100% AFK without physically seeing them and to do so you are able to interact) are now "bots"?

I'm seriously wondering about the mental health of Nag'o and that this thread beating of his numerous ways to nerf cloaking for active players may have taken its toll.

@Nag'o:

As for the comments on others posts as "troll posts" or "crap posts" please be respectful to people who post their opinions in threads as I have no hesitation in reporting trolling or offensive comments that add nothing to the discussion.

That being said I honestly think this maybe the most exhaustive thread I've ever had the misfortune to be part of whereby someone supports the OP (who has never returned to comment\reply further apart from the initial "Troll Bomb" of an "Idea) to the point of constantly moving the discussion from one idea to another and it has now moved to the point where it's so far removed that it's turned into liking that active Cov-Ops pilots are now "bots" because someone can't find them in system.

EDIT: In with Post #506 with this thread...good god the end must be near surely.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#507 - 2013-08-20 10:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
How did this even get around to be "Market Botting"? Is Nag'o now suggesting that active Cov-Ops pilots (I say active as you cannot ascertain if they are truly 100% AFK without physically seeing them and to do so you are able to interact) are now "bots"?


As stated previously in some other threads with similar topics, we need docking fuel. :)

Once your supply of docking fuel runs out your toon is forcefully undcoked from the station and it's ability to place and change market orders is blocked.

Not paying for your docking fuel is like circumventing taxes, ringing he wrath of the empires bureau of finances upon you, possibly revoking your pilot license.

EDIT:

Maximus Aerelius wrote:
EDIT: In with Post #506 with this thread...good god the end must be near surely.

Since we have an afk cloaking collection thread (thanks to Teckos) we might want to petition for someone to lock this thread. Nobody would miss it.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#508 - 2013-08-20 11:17:13 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
Gospadin wrote:
Nag'o wrote:
The owner of a bot character is also afk.
He is not affecting the game in any way, is he? People can just change the orders they are playing in the market, or pick a different asteroid belt, the bot player is not doing anything to them. How they react to the bot is their own issue and cannot be attributed to the fact that there is a bot there.


The bot is changing the state of the database.

But only if someone buys from or sell something for it, right? Otherwise he is not affecting the game in any way.
In all history of EvE online there has never been a single case of a market order changing the assets database without that order being filled. Now how do you know if the order is going to be filled? You don't. So the bot is not affecting your game.


The active order list is part of the database too.

That is not the point, the ship location is part of the database too.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#509 - 2013-08-20 11:29:59 UTC
You're all a bunch of simple minded folks.
How do you think laws are made?
People have to consider the consequences of illegal actions. Some actions are against the law not because they are bad by themselves, it's because the consequences of those actions are bad for the society as a whole.
"Let me hack this bank and add 1 trillion monies to my account. No one is going to get hurt, because I'm not taking money from anyone."

I'm trying to consider botting as a regular action to make an analogy of the consequences of it with the consequences of afk cloaking. It seems that's too much of a mental effort for you guys though. NP.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#510 - 2013-08-20 11:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Removed personal offences by myself.
I don't want to feed trolls.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#511 - 2013-08-20 11:34:26 UTC
This is becoming embarassing...
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#512 - 2013-08-20 11:38:21 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
This is becoming embarassing...

It's embarassing to acknowledge it's impossible to make a point simply because people are unable to understand it.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#513 - 2013-08-20 11:47:28 UTC
Evanga wrote:
My afk cloaked alt made a cyno on a navy geddon last night, how can that NOT be overpowered!! Big smile


Well to do that you can't have been AFK could you? Nope...next! ShockedLol

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#514 - 2013-08-20 11:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nag'o wrote:

If someone has to reactivate a cloak every 1 or 2 hours he is active somehow. How much is of a hidrance to hit a button two times? "Oh, it will give up his position." Just warp outside d-scan for doing that. I do that everytime with cov-ops to drop probes when I don't want to be detected and it's not a hidrance, it's just part of the hiding game. The way I see you just want an excuse to leave your ship cloaked while you go afk the whole day not giving a **** about what is happening in the game.



Right, warp out of d-scan range...if its possible...but what if they needed that cyno then? What if it was for a warp in? And why are we gimping active players when it is the inactive ones you are after? Your solution is too broad. Another reason things like this don't get implemented.

The game is still the same on that 2 hour window. Active players can't possibly be bothered by having to reactivate a cloak every two hours of active game. If the guy is jumping through systems it will not make a single difference as he have to reactivate it at every jump anyway.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#515 - 2013-08-20 11:53:44 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Some of the existing credibility you had was lost, when you tried to claim your words as mine. But at the point you suggested that AFKing is the same as botting, any and all credibility you had was lost..

Sorry dude, let's make an thorough investigation on forum quotes to averiguate the validity of that affirmation and make justice as you seem deeply affected by it and I'm extremly concerned about your credibility on me.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#516 - 2013-08-20 11:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Nag'o wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nag'o wrote:

If someone has to reactivate a cloak every 1 or 2 hours he is active somehow. How much is of a hidrance to hit a button two times? "Oh, it will give up his position." Just warp outside d-scan for doing that. I do that everytime with cov-ops to drop probes when I don't want to be detected and it's not a hidrance, it's just part of the hiding game. The way I see you just want an excuse to leave your ship cloaked while you go afk the whole day not giving a **** about what is happening in the game.



Right, warp out of d-scan range...if its possible...but what if they needed that cyno then? What if it was for a warp in? And why are we gimping active players when it is the inactive ones you are after? Your solution is too broad. Another reason things like this don't get implemented.

The game is still the same on that 2 hour window. Active players can't possibly be bothered by having to reactivate an active cloak every two hours of active game. If the guy is jumping through systems it will not make a single difference as he have to reactivate it at every jump anyway.


Yes is is a hindrance to ACTIVE PLAYERS if you are not jumping. RTFS as this was posted with several examples some pages back.

Stop regurgitating your pointless arguments from pages back...they weren't valid then and they aren't valid now. This thread has become ridiculous with you being so far off course from the original "Idea" and coming to an end with "Market Botting is the same as AFK Cloaking" that I've asked for it to be locked.

It's past exhausted the discussion and is so far of topic it should be classed as being a deep deep safe spot.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#517 - 2013-08-20 12:12:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nag'o
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

@Nag'o:

As for the comments on others posts as "troll posts" or "crap posts" please be respectful to people who post their opinions in threads as I have no hesitation in reporting trolling or offensive comments that add nothing to the discussion.

That being said I honestly think this maybe the most exhaustive thread I've ever had the misfortune to be part of whereby someone supports the OP (who has never returned to comment\reply further apart from the initial "Troll Bomb" of an "Idea) to the point of constantly moving the discussion from one idea to another and it has now moved to the point where it's so far removed that it's turned into liking that active Cov-Ops pilots are now "bots" because someone can't find them in system.

EDIT: In with Post #506 with this thread...good god the end must be near surely.

You can't ask for respect from someone you don't respect. That's just too much pretension.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Onomerous
KARNAGE
Ghostbirds
#518 - 2013-08-20 12:18:20 UTC
CCP really needs to reward some of you. Up to 26 pages now!!! GOGOGOGOGOGOGO!!! Let's keep beating this dead horse to see if we can grind the bones into a comb or something useful?

RollRoll
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#519 - 2013-08-20 12:22:01 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Stop regurgitating your pointless arguments from pages back...they weren't valid then and they aren't valid now. This thread has become ridiculous with you being so far off course from the original "Idea" and coming to an end with "Market Botting is the same as AFK Cloaking" that I've asked for it to be locked.

It's past exhausted the discussion and is so far of topic it should be classed as being a deep deep safe spot.

No, you just want to afk cloaking to stay or an excuse to offend someone.
2 hour cycling time does not change the game for anyone on that 2 hour window. That is a fact. It's how the mechanic is supposed to work. No point was made against this argument pages back because this argument is from 1 page behind. Stop being a jerk.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#520 - 2013-08-20 12:22:24 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
CCP really needs to reward some of you. Up to 26 pages now!!! GOGOGOGOGOGOGO!!! Let's keep beating this dead horse to see if we can grind the bones into a comb or something useful?

RollRoll

Yeah, it's all about the numbers.


Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.