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Why don't people use Shield Amplifiers ?

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Maximillian Strybjorn
Winchester. CE3
#1 - 2013-08-11 22:59:51 UTC
Ive been looking at fits on battleclinic, and trying out some of my own and i cant seem to figure out why there aren't more fits of shield amplifiers?

Surely as soon as the respective compensation skill is even at level 3 you get a 52.5% resistance rather than the 50% provided by a shield hardener?
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-08-11 23:04:59 UTC
Cause battleclinic sucks at giving fits?

They stack better then invuls with links but you still usually take 1 invul first as the extra ehp are nice, if you have 2 resitance slots left invul + shield amp is better then dual anything.

Without links they are less good but still dont use cap so they can still be used.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#3 - 2013-08-11 23:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Maximillian Strybjorn wrote:

Surely as soon as the respective compensation skill is even at level 3 you get a 52.5% resistance rather than the 50% provided by a shield hardener?


The reason is simple enough. If you have the CPU (and juice under pressure) to spare, an active hardener is always better. Example with lvl V emSC...

EM Ward amplifier II
Resistance bonus: 46.9%

EW Ward field II
Resistance bonus: 55%

moreover, you have the ability to OH the active hardener.

EW Ward field II
Resistance bonus OH: 66%
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-08-11 23:44:51 UTC
Maximillian Strybjorn wrote:
Ive been looking at fits on battleclinic, and trying out some of my own and i cant seem to figure out why there aren't more fits of shield amplifiers?

Surely as soon as the respective compensation skill is even at level 3 you get a 52.5% resistance rather than the 50% provided by a shield hardener?


I'm not sure who these "people" are but I use one for both my Raven and Nightmare fits. Of course maybe it depends on what you fly too.

Compensation skills only apply to passive hardeners. Active hardeners give better resists so unless you're being neuted are a preferred choice for active tanked PVE ships.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-08-12 00:52:48 UTC
Faction amplifiers are also only 17 CPU and cheap, not like 400m invulns. Good to keep in mind if you're ever short on CPU.
Grandma Squirel
#6 - 2013-08-12 02:16:13 UTC
Because to get the same resist from a passive hardener as you get from a non-overheated Tech 2 active hardener requires a B-Type passive, which is 50x more expensive. For the same prices as the B-Type passive, you can get an B-Type active, which is even better...
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-08-12 03:59:43 UTC
Maximillian Strybjorn wrote:
Ive been looking at fits on battleclinic, and trying out some of my own and i cant seem to figure out why there aren't more fits of shield amplifiers?

Surely as soon as the respective compensation skill is even at level 3 you get a 52.5% resistance rather than the 50% provided by a shield hardener?


You don't add the % to the resist, you multiply by that amount to get the extra.

Example

base
30% resist

with level 5 skill (+25%)
37.5% resist

To match the resistances of tech II hardeners you have to have at least 44% base resist, which are on the much more expensive deadspace hardeners. The only time you should really be using the amplifiers is when your really stretching for cap stability, you're very tight on CPU, or you expect a lot of energy neuting. Otherwise they'll be outperformed by tech II hardeners.
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-08-12 06:21:10 UTC
Shield Boost Amplifiers have a unique property, which is to double the heat damage done to shield boosters when these are being overheated. Using an Adaptive Invulnerability Field II over a Shield Boost Amplifier can mean that one gets a lower theoretical boost rate (eHP/s), but can overheat the shield booster twice as long.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2013-08-12 08:19:55 UTC
Also most ships that use a shield booster don't really have the midslots to spare. Its only really on battleships where you have that luxury

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Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-12 11:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Callan
Wait, is the discussion about shield resistance amplifiers or shield boost amplifiers?

If we're talking about resistance amplifiers, the best comparison is to the equivalent Tech II hardener - which gives a 55% resist, which can't be beaten by anything short of officer-level resistance amps unless you've got the right resistance skill trained to 5 (and even then, the only deadspace amps that'll match or beat the active hardener are Pithum B-type or A-type).

As for shield boost amps, they're only useful for active tank situations, and even then, like Whitehound said, only for ships that can spare the extra slot, which generally means battleships...

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#11 - 2013-08-12 11:25:26 UTC
There seems to be a little confusion in the thread. Some have understood the OP's "shield amplifiers" to mean Shield Resistance Amplifiers (passive resistance modules), while others are going with Shield Boost Amplifiers (booster buff modules). Some valid points made in both cases... just wanted to clarify.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#12 - 2013-08-12 14:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
The OP was obviously talking about resistance amplifiers, thats why he was discussing the damage type shield compensation skills. Thus Whitehound brainfarted and posted a tidbit about shield boost amplifiers.

Which was both very interesting, and sth I had no idea of its existence. So +1 to him, he failed at failing..Big smile
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-08-12 15:01:14 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Shield Boost Amplifiers have a unique property, which is to double the heat damage done to shield boosters when these are being overheated. Using an Adaptive Invulnerability Field II over a Shield Boost Amplifier can mean that one gets a lower theoretical boost rate (eHP/s), but can overheat the shield booster twice as long.


Huh I did not know this

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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2013-08-12 17:49:57 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Faction amplifiers are also only 17 CPU and cheap, not like 400m invulns. Good to keep in mind if you're ever short on CPU.


If you can't afford 400 mil on your pve ship I hope you have less than 20 mil SP.

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Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-08-12 19:10:15 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Faction amplifiers are also only 17 CPU and cheap, not like 400m invulns. Good to keep in mind if you're ever short on CPU.


If you can't afford 400 mil on your pve ship I hope you have less than 20 mil SP.


If you're putting invulnerability fields instead of faction specific hardeners on your mission ship I hope you're under 5 mil SP.
Whitehound
#16 - 2013-08-12 19:15:54 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
The OP was obviously talking about resistance amplifiers, thats why he was discussing the damage type shield compensation skills. Thus Whitehound brainfarted and posted a tidbit about shield boost amplifiers.

Which was both very interesting, and sth I had no idea of its existence. So +1 to him, he failed at failing..Big smile

It was not obvious to me. The passive resist amplifiers are used on almost every hauler that can fit a shield buffer tank. Exhumers fit them, too. Only shield boost amplifiers have this weird thing and I can imagine that many try to avoid them, because overheating is complicated enough as it is.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-08-12 21:45:08 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
The OP was obviously talking about resistance amplifiers, thats why he was discussing the damage type shield compensation skills. Thus Whitehound brainfarted and posted a tidbit about shield boost amplifiers.

Which was both very interesting, and sth I had no idea of its existence. So +1 to him, he failed at failing..Big smile

It was not obvious to me. The passive resist amplifiers are used on almost every hauler that can fit a shield buffer tank. Exhumers fit them, too. Only shield boost amplifiers have this weird thing and I can imagine that many try to avoid them, because overheating is complicated enough as it is.


True, wasnt obvious.


Passive resitances get used in lvl5s and in other pve areas where one encounters heavy neuting.
Maximillian Strybjorn
Winchester. CE3
#18 - 2013-08-13 13:04:51 UTC
Thanks for the replies, they were very helpful.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-08-14 17:42:09 UTC
Maximillian Strybjorn wrote:
Ive been looking at fits on battleclinic, and trying out some of my own and i cant seem to figure out why there aren't more fits of shield amplifiers?

Surely as soon as the respective compensation skill is even at level 3 you get a 52.5% resistance rather than the 50% provided by a shield hardener?



Most people just trained those at 3 or 4 because invulns/hardeners were completely op providing resists while not active, so all you had to do is pack 2 of those and activate them only when things were getting hot.
Since the change to this mechanic using resist amps is now interesting but not more than it was before, it was already very good but because of the silliness of previous mechanic everyone and his mad dog was using invulns/hardeners instead.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-08-14 17:51:14 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
Faction amplifiers are also only 17 CPU and cheap, not like 400m invulns. Good to keep in mind if you're ever short on CPU.


If you can't afford 400 mil on your pve ship I hope you have less than 20 mil SP.


If you're putting invulnerability fields instead of faction specific hardeners on your mission ship I hope you're under 5 mil SP.


Bravo.
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