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Change to SP loss in regards to T3's

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2013-08-12 21:35:00 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Ok...so the zealot is equivalent or better than the omen in practically every way (Damage, Damage projection, Tracking, EHP, etc. etc.).

The Omen is likewise worse in all of those categories. So what exactly does the zealot give up to be superior or equivalent to the omen in every other way?
Various other stats, but there's your other problem: you're assuming that balance means equality. It doesn't.

Quote:
I suggested raw material cost, to which you replied:
Yes? The balance between the Omen and Zealot would not change since materials costs do not affect any of the ship stats that make up that balance.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#122 - 2013-08-12 21:41:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Ok...so the zealot is equivalent or better than the omen in practically every way (Damage, Damage projection, Tracking, EHP, etc. etc.).

The Omen is likewise worse in all of those categories. So what exactly does the zealot give up to be superior or equivalent to the omen in every other way?
Various other stats, but there's your other problem: you're assuming that balance means equality. It doesn't.

Which stats specifically? [citation needed] Seems to me the zealot is better than the omen in every relevant way.

Lets put it another way. Lets assume the zealot was moved to T1 with identical material costs, while keeping its exact current stats, resists, and bonuses. Would it be balanced with respect to the omen, and other T1 cruisers? I think not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#123 - 2013-08-12 21:46:44 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Which stats specifically?
Cargo hold, shield capacity, speed, agility, mass, sig radius, sensor strength, drone capacity. Some of these will change in 1.1 (most notably sensor strength).

Quote:
Lets put it another way. Lets assume the zealot was moved to T1 with identical material costs, while keeping its exact current stats, resists, and bonuses. Would it be balanced with respect to the omen, and other T1 cruisers?
As much as it is right now, yes.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2013-08-12 21:47:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

So, you're telling me that on a pound for pound basis, the zealot and the omen are balanced against each other.



These ship hulls are indeed getting balanced against eachother. Thats the entire point of teircide, to get rid of T1 T2 T3.

...
Uh, no.
Tiercide is getting rid of tier one, tier two, tier three. Not tech one, tech two, or tech three. Those will remain.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2013-08-12 21:53:25 UTC
Disagree. Kickass ships needs to have some penalty. Until we see what could be done or changed on subsystems layout, I'd say keep the SP loss. I don't know what the focus of the T3 tiericide will really be about but I am still for keeping the SP loss.

... I wonder what T4 will have.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2013-08-12 21:56:16 UTC
Vayn Baxtor wrote:
... I wonder what T4 will have.

OH GOD NO
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2013-08-13 00:44:39 UTC
This is rediculous lol.

A ship that has a high cost is less likely to be used by players for PvP. Because it has a high cost (due to player demand and build cost) its generally going to be a much superior ship. The reason you see cheaper less superior ships in PvP is because of those of cost. The reason cost is important is 1) most pvp'rs don't have shedloads of isk 2) most pvp'rs don't want to be seen losing mega billion isk ships.

Thus, you can argue all day about build costs, the technicalities of balance but in the end high cost superior ships are used less in EvE because they're high cost, that ADDS BALANCE TO PVP.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#128 - 2013-08-13 02:52:11 UTC
Vayn Baxtor wrote:
... I wonder what T4 will have.


mining lasers that can mine the hulls of ships trying to gank them. clearly.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2013-08-13 14:34:43 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
Vayn Baxtor wrote:
... I wonder what T4 will have.


mining lasers that can mine the hulls of ships trying to gank them. clearly.

pvp never sounded so profitable as this
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#130 - 2013-08-13 17:51:01 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
but they should be better than T2...because they are T3. count it with me.

1. 2. ....3.

if they didn't want them to be better they should have called them "Tech 1 ½'s" or Tech 1¾'s"

Wrong.
Quote:
Tech, which impacts ship performance, and roles. Tech 1 is the reference in ship balancing, while faction ships (navy and pirate variants) are most often plain improvements, tech 2 offer a specialized purpose and tech 3 give opportunities for generalization.
http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/8742/1/Shiptech_1920.jpg

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