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Phoenix/citadel missiles buff for Odyssey 1.1

First post
Author
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-09 22:06:38 UTC
Either improve the explosion radius of the weapons or give the phoenix a special bonus. (CCP did that for the Nag right?) With a few tweaks this ship could be much closer to its brethren. Thoughts? This should be an easy fix for Odyssey 1.1 if the community brings it to CCP's attention.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

General Guardian
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-08-09 22:51:46 UTC
Do you realise increasing the explosion radius would be a nerf?
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-09 23:12:52 UTC
General Guardian wrote:
Do you realise increasing the explosion radius would be a nerf?


Yeah, it would be wouldn't it? But I said improve. As in make better aka smaller.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

General Guardian
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-08-10 00:38:27 UTC
Vassal Zeren wrote:
General Guardian wrote:
Do you realise increasing the explosion radius would be a nerf?


Yeah, it would be wouldn't it? But I said improve. As in make better aka smaller.


Ah my bad, I read "Increase" for some reason. Must have been too early in the morning lol.

Didn't they just buff citadel missiles by changing the penalty on the siege module? Or are they still bad?
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-08-10 01:37:57 UTC
General Guardian wrote:
Vassal Zeren wrote:
General Guardian wrote:
Do you realise increasing the explosion radius would be a nerf?


Yeah, it would be wouldn't it? But I said improve. As in make better aka smaller.


Ah my bad, I read "Increase" for some reason. Must have been too early in the morning lol.

Didn't they just buff citadel missiles by changing the penalty on the siege module? Or are they still bad?


Yeah, NP man, I kind of got a bit brisk with you anyways. As for the buff their explosion velocity is now 30. Ok great. so in other words you wont even hit a moving capital for full damage. The moros does like 13-16k dps and the phoenix does like 10k (and thats damage fit faction bcus and ammo) add to that that missiles are inferior anyways cause the damage is delayed, and you have yourself an inferior dread. I say buffs are in order.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#6 - 2013-08-10 02:57:43 UTC
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion about dreads, but feel the need to point out that your signature (a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver) is in fact a simile rather than an analogy. I'm sorry. It was just bugging me.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Archibald Franascani
Ubuntu Inc.
The Fourth District
#7 - 2013-08-10 03:56:41 UTC
On a similar note, I had been thinking earlier that missiles needed a mid or low slot module that acted like a tracking enhancer/computer for missiles. An improvement to either both factors of damage application, or radius and missile velocity for longer range. I don't have personal experience but wouldn't that help both the users of XL missiles?
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#8 - 2013-08-10 10:04:16 UTC
Archibald Franascani wrote:
On a similar note, I had been thinking earlier that missiles needed a mid or low slot module that acted like a tracking enhancer/computer for missiles. An improvement to either both factors of damage application, or radius and missile velocity for longer range. I don't have personal experience but wouldn't that help both the users of XL missiles?

With TE/TC for missiles will come TD for missilies. Devs have been thinnking about that for a while already. That change will probably come with e-war rebalance some time Soon™.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#9 - 2013-08-10 10:18:24 UTC
Raise the explosion velocity of citadel cruises and torpedoes to 50m/s and 36m/s, respectively.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-10 11:46:30 UTC
Allandri wrote:
Raise the explosion velocity of citadel cruises and torpedoes to 50m/s and 36m/s, respectively.


Shouldn't that be the other way around, seeing as short range weapons have better tracking than long range?

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-08-10 11:48:18 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Archibald Franascani wrote:
On a similar note, I had been thinking earlier that missiles needed a mid or low slot module that acted like a tracking enhancer/computer for missiles. An improvement to either both factors of damage application, or radius and missile velocity for longer range. I don't have personal experience but wouldn't that help both the users of XL missiles?

With TE/TC for missiles will come TD for missilies. Devs have been thinnking about that for a while already. That change will probably come with e-war rebalance some time Soon™.


That will kill missile pvp. The immunity to ewar compensates for the delayed damage. Instead ccp should just create a separate module similar to TE's for missiles. This would also help the phoenix.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-10 12:00:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Vassal Zeren
double post

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-08-10 12:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vassal Zeren
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion about dreads, but feel the need to point out that your signature (a bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver) is in fact a simile rather than an analogy. I'm sorry. It was just bugging me.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy

An analogy is where you make a comparison to two things and say they are similar or comparable in some way. You might use like or as to do it. Outside the English classroom, the use of the word simile is quite limited for the reason you just unwittingly pointed out: there is no meaning to say something is a simile. All it is is saying you used X word to compare two things, it doesn't tell you what type of comparison was made like words such as analogy do. Long story short, simile is one of those made up terms so teachers can ask their students "whats this word doing here, kids?" and they say "oooh ooh," with their hands waving, "a simile!" It's a distinction without a difference.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#14 - 2013-08-10 12:12:43 UTC
Fit the right rigs to your phoenix? target painter is meant to help against smaller targets but you need rigs to apply it better. Like you guys said it is due to their general immunity to ewar that this is in place. With an ewar rebalance you might see explosion velcoty modules butni wouldnt count on it
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#15 - 2013-08-10 12:21:30 UTC
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Allandri wrote:
Raise the explosion velocity of citadel cruises and torpedoes to 50m/s and 36m/s, respectively.


Shouldn't that be the other way around, seeing as short range weapons have better tracking than long range?


Missiles don't follow that paradigm. Long range, high explosion velocity, mediocre damage vs short range, low explosion velocity, high damage
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-08-10 12:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vassal Zeren
Allandri wrote:
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Allandri wrote:
Raise the explosion velocity of citadel cruises and torpedoes to 50m/s and 36m/s, respectively.


Shouldn't that be the other way around, seeing as short range weapons have better tracking than long range?


Missiles don't follow that paradigm. Long range, high explosion velocity, mediocre damage vs short range, low explosion velocity, high damage


Yes that is true, but I didn't notice until just now that you are confusing explosion explosion velocity with explosion radius. Look up hams vs hms. you will notice that hams have either identical or better explosion radius and far better explosion velocity, making them have far superior tracking.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-08-10 12:38:18 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Fit the right rigs to your phoenix? target painter is meant to help against smaller targets but you need rigs to apply it better. Like you guys said it is due to their general immunity to ewar that this is in place. With an ewar rebalance you might see explosion velcoty modules butni wouldnt count on it


you shouldn't need to fit rigor rigs; none of the other dreads do. Most dread fits will either have hp buff rigs or cap buff rigs. Sure you might be able to jury rig a fit with rigors but It really is sub optimal compared to any other dread. CCP has admitted this on multiple occasions; they should buff things.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#18 - 2013-08-10 13:02:53 UTC
I thought one of the major benefits of missiles was cap immunity? ergo no need for cap rigs.

The only thing I could say about hp buff rigs is that they compete with rigors whereas armour tankers can fit armour layering mods. No similar shield module exists for better or worse
General Guardian
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-08-10 13:25:39 UTC
Well, in one very unlikely (but possible) way. Citadel missiles COULD be considered way overpowered. Although for this to occur there would have to be some major shenanigans involved.

Let's say your Citadel torpedo thas a max range of 65km and rate of fire is 13 seconds.
Total alpha we can average at 140k for this example.

If by some bizarre turn of events you got starbursted or super bumped towards a target from max range at roughly the same speed as your torps (vicinity of 1750m/s?), you would arrive on top of your target at the same time as your first 2 volleys to hit, and 2 seconds before the 3rd volley hits.

This is roughly 420k damage in the space of 3 seconds. Or 140k dps.

This isn't possible with turrets.

:D
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-08-10 14:04:27 UTC
General Guardian wrote:
Well, in one very unlikely (but possible) way. Citadel missiles COULD be considered way overpowered. Although for this to occur there would have to be some major shenanigans involved.

Let's say your Citadel torpedo thas a max range of 65km and rate of fire is 13 seconds.
Total alpha we can average at 140k for this example.

If by some bizarre turn of events you got starbursted or super bumped towards a target from max range at roughly the same speed as your torps (vicinity of 1750m/s?), you would arrive on top of your target at the same time as your first 2 volleys to hit, and 2 seconds before the 3rd volley hits.

This is roughly 420k damage in the space of 3 seconds. Or 140k dps.

This isn't possible with turrets.

:D


Now you're just being stupid. And how do you propose to hit said target without buffs to missile targeting?

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

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