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Elusenian Director-General refutes claims of "endemic" Minmatar discrimination

Author
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
#61 - 2013-09-03 11:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Laurentis Thiesant
Kaid Hayden wrote:
The Republic's flaws nonwithstanding, let's not pretend like the Federation hasn't reaped the benefit of the influx of cheap labour. Federation employers have played ethnicities against each other and used that excuse to keep wages low and trade unions ineffective. The Federation's industries aren't on a humanitarian mission.


Sociocrat nonsense. Gallentean corporations aren't apart of the be all, end all Caldari model. They're simply and solely in business. Gallentean corporations employ millions of Matari who would otherwise have no sustainable and reliable way of supporting themselves. There's no race warfare, no 'conspiracy theory' about turning people against each other M. Hayden. It's simply not the business our corporations are in. They're about doing their job, and providing their products and services to the community. Each and every employee, regardless of racial identification, helps them reach that goal.

Businesses are good for people.
People are good for business.

The Federation benefits, the Minmatar benefit.
Everyone is better off than they otherwise would have been.

They need each other to survive. It's not humanitarian or anything so complex, I agree. It is merely a fact of life that applies equally to all citizens under Federation law.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#62 - 2013-09-03 18:48:41 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:

Does that include all so called "race traitors and alike ? Some of your kin have always been rather prone to cast them away and deny categorically them being called "Matari".


I cannot speak for all Matari, but I was always taught that each man follows his own path to the truth of the universe. Just because a Matari has different beliefs to the Majority, it doesn't automatically make them a traitor to our people. If it did, I would be considered a Traitor for my Beliefs, just for advocating tolerance for the Beliefs of other.



So, just for the sake of clarity, what makes one a traitor in your eyes?

-Eran


I would say someone who has willingly acted against their own people with both knowledge and intent that their actions would definitely cause harm to their People.


So, these are not Matari ?

And does that make me Matari then ? That is quite intriguing.
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#63 - 2013-09-03 19:56:36 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:

Does that include all so called "race traitors and alike ? Some of your kin have always been rather prone to cast them away and deny categorically them being called "Matari".


I cannot speak for all Matari, but I was always taught that each man follows his own path to the truth of the universe. Just because a Matari has different beliefs to the Majority, it doesn't automatically make them a traitor to our people. If it did, I would be considered a Traitor for my Beliefs, just for advocating tolerance for the Beliefs of other.



So, just for the sake of clarity, what makes one a traitor in your eyes?

-Eran


I would say someone who has willingly acted against their own people with both knowledge and intent that their actions would definitely cause harm to their People.


So, these are not Matari ?

And does that make me Matari then ? That is quite intriguing.


I speak in General Terms, Ms. Farel, not just regarding the Matari. It's just as valid a definition for any of the Peoples of the cluster whether they be Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Matari, or even the elusive Jove.

None of our peoples has a monopoly on Men willing to fall to dark paths, preying on the vulnerable of our societies.

However, even if one can be defined a traitor, it does not suddenly change their Genetic Code. For Example, Anvent Eturrer did not suddenly stop being Gallente the moment he handed over the Keys to Tripwire.

So, in answer to your query :- No, it doesn't make you Matari. It would be like saying if Shakor for whatever reason, suddenly found the Amarrian God to a Fanatical Degree that he could turn himself into a True Amarr. Some things in life you can never change. A Person's Parentage being one of them.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#64 - 2013-09-03 20:25:53 UTC
Laurentis Thiesant wrote:

...The Republic has made some incredible steps throughout its existence. There is, however, still a long way to go. Accept that and work on it. That's the best way to create the best outcome for your people.


Pilot, you can accuse me of many things, however, living in denial isn't one of those.

Perhaps you could direct me to where I said that life in the Republic was perfect? It seems that you missed the post where I stated that the Republic still has much work to do in order to raise living standards for all citizens but, did so in a less condescending manner.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#65 - 2013-09-03 23:27:48 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
Both the CONCORD national descriptor files, and the Gal-Net Caldari demographics article, freely available on links related to this site, describe the standard of living in the State as the second highest in the cluster. Of course, that is skewed somewhat down by the fact that both incorporate the living standards of both corporate citizens, and the various outcasts of the Megas and the non-citizen planetary populations.

To quote the former article: "The State offers its citizens the best and the worst in living conditions. As long as you keep in line, do your job, uphold the laws and so forth, life can be fairly pleasant and productive. But for those who are not cut out for this strict, disciplined regime life quickly becomes intolerable."
A regime that makes life intolerable for it's citizens, and is proud of it, yes indeed that is the Caldari state. The true reason you rank number two in the cluster is because of the extravagant lifestyles enjoyed by your ruling party masters, they offset the great majority of you who toil endlessly in abject poverty with no hope for a way out.


Alright, I can't claim to have experienced the Matari refugee camps first hand but I lived most of my life as one of those citizens. No Citizen's life is intolerable, unless they choose to make it so. The criteria were as described - do your job, uphold the laws, stay in line. That might rule out the majority of citizens where YOU come from, but where I come from that allows the majority access to those lives of pleasant productivity.

Our citizens have decent housing, abundant food, security, universal healthcare and education and access to jobs that will provide them all this and the same for their children after them.

Toiling in abject poverty? Perhaps the unattached, but NOT the majority, and the unattached are the unattached because they're not contributing to society - why should society fuss over their needs? Lawbreaker? You're going to have a bad time. Dissident? You're going to have a bad time. Idle wastrel? You're going to have a bad time.

That's the society we built and it's the one the MAJORITY of us want to live in. The kind of dystopian welfare state YOU seem to want is available over the border, for those weak enough to desire it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2013-09-04 20:00:46 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:


I speak in General Terms, Ms. Farel, not just regarding the Matari. It's just as valid a definition for any of the Peoples of the cluster whether they be Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Matari, or even the elusive Jove.

None of our peoples has a monopoly on Men willing to fall to dark paths, preying on the vulnerable of our societies.

However, even if one can be defined a traitor, it does not suddenly change their Genetic Code. For Example, Anvent Eturrer did not suddenly stop being Gallente the moment he handed over the Keys to Tripwire.

So, in answer to your query :- No, it doesn't make you Matari. It would be like saying if Shakor for whatever reason, suddenly found the Amarrian God to a Fanatical Degree that he could turn himself into a True Amarr. Some things in life you can never change. A Person's Parentage being one of them.


But that is precisely what I asked. I have an Ammatar lineage, and thus, tracing back to Nefantar roots. If genetics is the only criteria.

If not - and that is what I was trying to understand - is where do Minmatar usually draw the line ? Or are their views too diverse to state anything in particular ?
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#67 - 2013-09-04 20:57:19 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:

But that is precisely what I asked. I have an Ammatar lineage, and thus, tracing back to Nefantar roots. If genetics is the only criteria.

If not - and that is what I was trying to understand - is where do Minmatar usually draw the line ? Or are their views too diverse to state anything in particular ?


My Apologies, Ms. Farel. I made the error of failing to check your CONCORD Registry before answering so was unaware of your Lineage.

Unfortunately the Views of Minmatar vary from Person to Person so there is no hard and fast rule to say for definite. Genetically you are descended from the Nefantar so, in my eyes, you could rightly state you are of the Matari People by birth, if not by culture.

It's that second part I also have problems with. Only my Father was of the Matari and I grew up in the Federation so I was not immersed in Matari Customs. Indeed, I'm mostly a product of my Mother's people in outlook so aspects of the Matari Customs sometimes confuse me greatly.

I can say that I've not had any issues with Hostility since moving to the Republic a year or so ago, despite being an outsider of mixed Race.