Intergalactic Summit

Even if she had been donated Gallente blood at some prior point, wouldn't her body have replaced most of it with her own blood by this point? I can't recall how frequently the body effectively replaces its blood.

Unless there was a marrow donation involved. That would be-- problematic.

I somehow suspect Kim-haani will have medical bills coming up.

Freedom is being a citizen of the Federation.

Ah, pardon, Kim-haani; I haven't read this thread very closely.

Philosophical debates on the Summit tend to be, well-- tend to be a bit of a wreck, to be honest.

I'll correct that misstep.

In my opinion, what Starfire just said is probably the biggest point of contention between the Federation and the Republic.

In Republic Matari society, the tribe and clan are the focus, and their members are encouraged to do the things they do in order to strengthen their clan and tribe. There's not really a lot of movement between clans and tribes - what I mean is, if I'm born a Sebiestor of the Starfire clan, I can't easily go join the Deep Swimmers clan of the Brutor tribe. I could marry into it, but I can't really just join up by deciding to.

This is seen as pretty regressive in the Federation. "Of course I should be able to choose my own group.", we might say.

It's interesting to compare Republic Matari society to the State. While there is probably more mobility, in that some do go to work for other corporations, there's the same focus on doing what you do for the benefit of your corporation, and by extension, your State. When you peel back the layers of Caldari society, as well, you'll start to find a layer where the unspoken agreement adds "...assuming you're one of the Caldari race" to "work hard and succeed".

In that sense it's pretty obvious why people like Stitcher dedicate themselves to building a Caldari-Republic relationship. The two cultures, when you look at them from this angle, are both far closer than they are to the Federation.

As an intellectual exercise, too, it's interesting to examine the Amarr Empire. While there are ethnic Amarr, just as there are ethnic Gallente, they're more than willing to call someone Amarrian if they've accepted their religion. Just as we're more than willing to call someone Gallente if they've accepted our culture.

Oh, and as a postscript, for pilot Tyrathlion: While I'm unwilling to provide the records, I can answer in the affirmative.

I was just hoping "Oh gee, I hope Diana Kim is ok with my people and our way of life!"

It is only through service to others that we find value in our own lives. The more people who can depend on your service, the more value your life has.

I'll take that over "freedom" any day.

Meanwhile, less philosophical and more political:

Freedom is whatever your government trusts you to do for yourself without screwing up. That's it. What people often forget is that Rights and Responsibility are two edges of the same sword. When you have the Right to do something what that really means is that your government has entrusted you with the Freedom to take on a Responsibility to use the Right without screwing up. If you screw up the Responsibility then you'll lose the Rights.

For example, we trust members of society to not go around stabbing each other. To be responsible with their knives and their tempers. If they screw up and start stabbing people then poof goes their rights - off to prison they go. Almost all laws are just variations of this. But it doesn't always take a criminal act: If someone is mentally ill and thus can't handle the Responsibility of functioning in society on their own then the government will step in and put them in a nice quiet place weaving baskets. Yes, their Rights are stripped away because they can't handle the Responsibility that goes with it. The same goes for children, whom have very few rights in comparison to their parents, because society knows that they are not ready for the Responsibilities of adults and therefore doesn't grant them the Rights of adults, either.

As my auntie probably mentioned before, more than a few of the "personal servants" (read: slaves) of our household estate fall into the category of "damaged" people. One girl is... well, not terribly bright. One is exceedingly old & feeble. And so on. Long story short is that they're really not fit to be taking care of themselves so we take of them instead. Yes, their Rights have been removed but then so have their Responsibilities as well. That job falls to us & the more fit and able members of our staff. See "Service" above.

I've watched this thread, curious to see if it would ever come away from the ever-entertaining verbal sparring with Pilot Kim. I am not surprised that it should be Pilot Starfire to bring things back on course. The quoted passage in particular prompts me to add my opinion to this topic.

I have a Voluval mark. It is a black one. One of the blackest a Matari can receive. If not for being a Thukker, I may well have been cast out for the mark I received. For years, I was skeptical of the veracity and authenticity of the modern Voluval... but, years having passed and lessons having been learned, I now know that there is nothing bogus about it.

I am not a good man. My life may well be fore-ordained. That is galling, but Pilot Starfire is right. We do have a choice in how to walk our path... or not walk our path. In the beginning, I thought I was choosing not to walk it at all. In hindsight, I see that deep down, I chose at every crossroads to walk the very path set before me and to glory in it. Ironically, it was a Caldari member of the Angel Cartel (at that time) who gave me the insight that allowed me to understand... well. Some of the truth of myself.

Was the road that I chose lonely and cold? Yes. And it still is. I doubt that will ever change. Could I walk any other? Not without losing myself and surrendering the very freedom for which I walk it.


I should say that I am made free by my acknowledgement that what was before... is not now. Acknowledging this has freed me from the obligations of our Social Contract - every society has one, which I am sure you must understand. I expect you've contemplated exempting yourself from it entirely more than once. And once free of this "contract," once unencumbered by an "objective standard" that is in no way objective, what is left to guide us but our own will?


Do you not answer your own question here by the order in which you deliver your guesses? Reform? Not feasible. Rebellion? Not effective enough. Annihilation...

Now we're getting somewhere.


I do. In fact, I ask myself this question daily. And if I find myself doubting that the answer is yes for just one moment, I seek ways to effect a change in that self-perception. Usually at someone else's expense, and that is unfortunate... but such is life.


We are capsuleers, now... there was a time when we truly had to worry about our governments. And then, their programs endowed us with the power to annihilate entire fleets of their security forces all by ourselves. And in the end, what means does any government have by which to enforce its will upon us but their military power? An Infomorph is a government, Pilot. Think on that for a time.

How lonely and cold is your road, Pilot Rasker? Have you passed through the Voluval ceremony? If you have, I'll bet your mark bodes as ill as my own. How long until you decide that it doesn't matter how much good you do for the People? How long until you realize that despite being of them, you were never one of them? That you aren't even of the same species anymore? That the cleanest of freedoms available to an infomorph is to disconnect oneself from the ties of human society and focus on how we can use them to do for ourselves?

Do not think yourself beyond the reach of Empires, sir. Think of the words you've spoken here when next you are ensnared in CONCORD's net, and ask whether you are truly without bound or master.

Erhm, without active Pilot License which you need to buy or obtain every month, CONCORD won't let you be in space, no matter where you are, good sir. CONCORD's jurisdiction is pretty much everywhere (yes, even in wormholes).

You would think you can hide yourself in some deep quiet wormhole or in distant nullsec system -- but nope; you still need to obtain a PLEX to be able to wake up in your clone and / or pilot a spaceship.

Well, unless you go planet-side, that is.

True freedom as well as true liberty are evil in its purest forms. Whether I would delve into the search, I won't be looking for either freedom or liberty, but rather for those, who tend to practice them. You know, in order to destroy them. For the sake of whole humanity.