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Odyssey 1.1 thoughts..
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-08-09 15:17:04 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams


Interesting observation.

From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough.



Not sure why you feel the need to get defensive on CCP's behalf.
Tell me about all the art that you see created between the expansions. I don't see it. Have you seen the X trailer? How long has Egosoft worked on that, 2-3 years? Eve is ten years old. It's not rocket sience that the game could look a lot more vibrant, alive and immersive if a dedicated art/design team would work on it all year. Again i don't see it. Making a new skin for a Navy faction ship is a days work for an artist. But CCP sells it like a whole team had to work on it for months and people like you buy it. I don't blame you. Perhaps you've never opened Maya or Photoshop.

And i don't say that they don't work hard enough. Only that it's obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about game art that CCP's artists and designers must work on something else then Eve. There is no other explanation.
Just check the F&I section of the forums. All stickies for Odyssey 1.1 involve things that are merely tweaking some values in script files. No sticky about new content being created.

Everyone's outsourcing these days, the arts probably done by Rashniki and Pushba Singh out of a dingy one bedroom hovel in New Delhi.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#22 - 2013-08-09 18:17:48 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams


Interesting observation.

From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough.



Not sure why you feel the need to get defensive on CCP's behalf.
Tell me about all the art that you see created between the expansions. I don't see it. Have you seen the X trailer? How long has Egosoft worked on that, 2-3 years? Eve is ten years old. It's not rocket sience that the game could look a lot more vibrant, alive and immersive if a dedicated art/design team would work on it all year. Again i don't see it. Making a new skin for a Navy faction ship is a days work for an artist. But CCP sells it like a whole team had to work on it for months and people like you buy it. I don't blame you. Perhaps you've never opened Maya or Photoshop.

And i don't say that they don't work hard enough. Only that it's obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about game art that CCP's artists and designers must work on something else then Eve. There is no other explanation.
Just check the F&I section of the forums. All stickies for Odyssey 1.1 involve things that are merely tweaking some values in script files. No sticky about new content being created.


You keep tripping over my point without seeing it.

You're not a project manager at CCP. You're not a stakeholder. You're not a team member. Of course *you* haven't seen anything.

What you're seeing is what is ready to release, not what has been worked on.

For all we know the art team is busting chops working on POS revamp artwork that might not release for 1-2 more expansions, or new ship hulls, or customizable ship skins, or who knows what else, and some yutz comes along in the forums trashing their work because he hasn't seen anything new lately that he couldn't have whipped out in a day's work because he's so pro.

Being all game developery like you claim, one would think you'd be familiar with the concept of "It's not done yet, don't show it to anyone."

Additionaly, fwiw, Eve isn't supposed to look alive and vibrant like a Japanese mech game, it's a cold, dark and harsh universe. It's also an existing body of work, not a game for a handheld platform that needs to drum up all the flashy artwork it can to impress people into buying it.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
#23 - 2013-08-11 20:35:50 UTC
War Kitten wrote:


You're not a project manager at CCP. You're not a stakeholder. You're not a team member. Of course *you* haven't seen anything.

What you're seeing is what is ready to release, not what has been worked on.


I don't think is is talking about just the art produced for odyssey. If you look over the last few years its been pretty much the same. unless they have been saving stuff up for the last few years to release in one Mega expansion, I doubt they have been producing stuff thats needed.

The most likely think is poor project management. They spend a huge amount of time working on stuff thats not getting released to the public. This would lead our impression of little being done. But from their side of things a huge number of items have been created.

if this is the case, its not the artists who have failed but the management who should be utilizing this resource better. If you get them to produce **** loads of character clothes and then don't release them its not the artists fault.

But the truth is if you take out database changes (like ship balancing, loot drops) there is very little content produced by CCP that gets released to the public.

This is why Dust will fail. CCP can't produce stuff fast enough to keep up with battlefield etc.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#24 - 2013-08-12 11:21:53 UTC
Chamile Eonic wrote:

I don't think is is talking about just the art produced for odyssey. If you look over the last few years its been pretty much the same. unless they have been saving stuff up for the last few years to release in one Mega expansion, I doubt they have been producing stuff thats needed.


The last few years?

Ok, how about a revamp to nearly every ship in the game (The V3 initiative)
New animated turrets for every turret in the game.
Animated launchers and missiles.
New jumpgate models and art.
New stealth bomber models.
I think even the planets and nebulas got updated within the last couple years.

What else were you wanting them to work on besides ships in this spaceship game?


I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#25 - 2013-08-12 12:02:37 UTC
Yeah, because you are constantly looking at awesome turret and launchers animations... They are needed for making vids or when you showing game to somebody and that's all.

Eve is in full rebalance/tiercide mode right now, anything new is in pushed down the todo list. Ask about POS plans and you will hear "we talk about it, nothing is done".

Invalid signature format
Anea Ruminare
#26 - 2013-08-12 12:18:42 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Chamile Eonic wrote:

I don't think is is talking about just the art produced for odyssey. If you look over the last few years its been pretty much the same. unless they have been saving stuff up for the last few years to release in one Mega expansion, I doubt they have been producing stuff thats needed.


The last few years?

Stuff...
What else were you wanting them to work on besides ships in this spaceship game?



Just to be fair, CCP should release a statement with the % of money from subs spent on eve development per semester, starting 2012.

Ofc, if those money would have been spent on a project that plays on PC, that the eve community can directly benefit from, then it would have been ok. But they aren`t.

And if I hear the "but it is their money and you are not a shareholder" argument, I will go nuts. It is such a shallow thing to say.

It is simple, if they refuse to reinvest the money I pay them towards my enjoyment, I will click the cancel subscription. And even if you will understand the real motive for player base decline in the future or not, this will be the reality for the next years.

And this is the real concern Chamile Eonic wrote about, not development time etc. The development power left EVE about 1-2 years ago.

Just think about it, you pay for a full game every 3 months.

I am just concerned about EVE, because it is such a beautiful and intelligent game. Would hate to see it going free to play and become mediocre.
Jack Morrison
Team Liquid crp.
#27 - 2013-08-12 12:40:14 UTC
Not sure why war kitten took the role of a CCP lawyer here.
I think one can pretty much sum it up by asking ' When did you last get really new features like wormholes / incursions ?'.
Not hard to answer that. Remodelled ships and new visual effects have a cool factor of a few seconds.

Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.
Prince Kobol
#28 - 2013-08-12 12:42:10 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Roime wrote:
One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place.


Not true, I heard there are like 120 developers in Dust team - there are whole 2375 players online in that game at the moment (exactly 10 times less than in subscription-based EVE).


120 Devs working on Dust lol, please tell me what you are smoking as I want some :)
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#29 - 2013-08-12 12:45:23 UTC
Zomg by the time i get back full time on eve, i need to relearn my 7yrs of ship-expereance again.... CCP PLEASE STOP DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB!!!
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#30 - 2013-08-12 12:54:18 UTC
Jack Morrison wrote:
Remodelled ships and new visual effects have a cool factor of a few seconds.


Yeah, you look at new artwork for a bit, say your "oohs" and "ahhs" and get back to playing the game.

But the thread was about artwork development, so I filled them in on all the things I could think of that they were missing about artwork.

I pilot zoomed out pretty far all the time and turn down the graphics for maximum performance, yet I notice and appreciate the changes that are made.

I guess some people just can't be pleased and need to complain about things. My need is to argue with them. :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Jack Morrison
Team Liquid crp.
#31 - 2013-08-12 12:56:56 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Jack Morrison wrote:
Remodelled ships and new visual effects have a cool factor of a few seconds.


Yeah, you look at new artwork for a bit, say your "oohs" and "ahhs" and get back to playing the game.

But the thread was about artwork development, so I filled them in on all the things I could think of that they were missing about artwork.

I pilot zoomed out pretty far all the time and turn down the graphics for maximum performance, yet I notice and appreciate the changes that are made.

I guess some people just can't be pleased and need to complain about things. My need is to argue with them. :)


Understood Cool , also Chribba

Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-08-12 12:57:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Johan Toralen wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:
I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams


Interesting observation.

From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough.



Not sure why you feel the need to get defensive on CCP's behalf.


I do, let me high light it for you:

Quote:

Tell me about all the art that you see created between the expansions. I don't see it. Have you seen the X trailer? How long has Egosoft worked on that, 2-3 years? Eve is ten years old. It's not rocket sience that the game could look a lot more vibrant, alive and immersive if a dedicated art/design team would work on it all year. Again i don't see it. Making a new skin for a Navy faction ship is a days work for an artist. But CCP sells it like a whole team had to work on it for months and people like you buy it. I don't blame you. Perhaps you've never opened Maya or Photoshop.

And i don't say that they don't work hard enough. Only that it's obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about game art that CCP's artists and designers must work on something else then Eve. There is no other explanation.
Just check the F&I section of the forums. All stickies for Odyssey 1.1 involve things that are merely tweaking some values in script files. No sticky about new content being created.


EVE is beautiful, you problem is simply one of perception ie you don't like the artwork or it's not moving along as fast as you'd like.

If it's so simple, why aren't you applying to work at CCP so you can show em what's what?
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#33 - 2013-08-12 18:49:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
EVE is beautiful, you problem is simply one of perception ie you don't like the artwork or it's not moving along as fast as you'd like.


I never said Eve is ugly. It's a good looking game, for a mmo anyway. But it's my humble opinion that a lot of its potential is left untapped and that not nearly enough art and design ressources are assigned to it when you keep in mind the luxury situation that CCP should be in given the amount of monthly subscriptions. Most game dev studios can only dream of such steady income stream. So really shouldn't be hard for the higher ups at CCP to push development much further then what we see if they really wanted to.

Unlike some other users in here Chamile Eonic seems to have understood what i'm trying to say. If i blame anyone it's management not the artists and designers at CCP. Artists don't make the decissions about how much work and manpower is put into a game or what of their work is released eventualy.

Quote:
If it's so simple, why aren't you applying to work at CCP so you can show em what's what?


The tone of this comment (and War Kitten's aswell) is really silly because i never mentioned my experience to boast about it but to provide other paying customers of this game with an opinion from perspective of someone who knows games not just from playing them.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#34 - 2013-08-12 19:36:08 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
But it's my humble opinion that a lot of its potential is left untapped and that not nearly enough art and design ressources are assigned to it


Ok,

1) Where do you see a need for more art resources?
2) What projects would you pull these resources from?

You seem to have a need for more pretty pictures, and you seem to know where and how many resources are already applied. Let's hear your ideas beyond, "I need more!"

You can argue with our tone all you want, but we're taking that tone because your argument has no substance.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Warcalibre
NovaTech Holdings
#35 - 2013-08-12 20:04:09 UTC
They're trying to make up for the joke of an "expansion" that was Odyssey.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#36 - 2013-08-12 22:24:40 UTC
Odyssey 1.1: 25 million dollars (quarterly income) put to work?

CSM Malcanis said that there is a plan (his words, not mine) and will be announced someday (my guess).

I'd bet it's not EVE 2... Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#37 - 2013-08-13 07:10:40 UTC
I was also wondering what Chribba thinks about this.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#38 - 2013-08-13 12:22:03 UTC
War Kitten wrote:

1) Where do you see a need for more art resources?


I don't see a "need" for more art. What i see is a game with 500k subscriptions. A company with enough income to finance 2 AAA games per year. In that context the expansions we get for Eve are pathetic. So surely can't be too much to ask to get a little more back in return for maintaining multiple accounts.
You come off as someone with absolutely zero imagination. I get it Eve already is perfect in your eyes. But other people notice the discrepancy between trailers and actual game, how all systems are just copy pastes of the same hand full props, how lifeless the game looks, how **** poor many of the game mechanics are, how many poorly implemented aspects of the game are left to rot etc. Notice i was talking about art & design which is more then just "pretty pictures".

Quote:
You can argue with our tone all you want, but we're taking that tone because your argument has no substance.


At least you are full of a certain substance. Good for you.
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