Wormholes

This is less a wormhole effects problem and more of an armor/shield balance problem. Tweaking one set of wormhole effects isn't really going to change that.

Besides we've already got Pulsars for shield friendly stuff.

Plus I think anything that isn't at least somewhat competitive with other effects for PvE as well as PvP will see these ignored as much as they are now.

Aren't magnetars already doing this? Or was it wolf rayet?

Anyway i realy like this idea :

Items that would make sense for me as a Black Hole effect

Random static (in other words it has a static that works like any other static in respawn except that one day the static may be a b274 the next a n766 next day a null etc

Time dilation should actually slow down time so 1/2 normal speed not 2*

perhaps have the time dilation effect the static longevity

turret tracking would be worse not better (turrets have to adjust for the changing gravity over trajectory)

same with missile explosion velocity (part of the energy is being pulled toward the bh sol less damage especially to smaller targets

then finally yes the web should have a bonus but not good enough to counter the hit to turrent tracking as it applies to dreds

So here's a thing about the incoming HAC rebalance: They are all designed to fight from medium-to-long range.

Wormholes are not, generally speaking, well-configured for that.

It would be interesting to have a set of bonuses that encouraged long-range fighting in w-space, forcing different fleet comps the same way that Pulsars or Wolf Rayets do (or to a lesser degree, Cat Vars).

Someone early in the thread talked about a missile velocity bonus. Let's go all-in on range boost using come combination of the below:

Missile/bomb velocity
Optimal and falloff
Targeting range
Point (but NOT web) range, possibly including HICs but that might get broken in a hurry

Offset by:
Tracking penalty
Explosion radius and/or velocity penalty
Some kind of penalty that makes the optimal bonuses not boost knife-fighting proteii to a stupid degree...pity there's no enforceable minimum range
MWD sig bloom penalty maybe? I have mixed feels about that as an idea, I'm just putting it out there.

On further inspection I believe that the above listed bonuses and penalties are largely crap (except the point range one), so I'm going to go with the broad idea and let smarter people fill in the implementation: Create an environment where, especially at the higher class WHs, it is better and indeed almost required to fight at 30-50km instead of the usual brawl-at-zero-on-the-hole.

Alternately go the other direction and swap maneuvering and speed: Make everything slow but handle really well. Hilarious.

I'm confused how this affects anything other than making nano pvp even more hilarious.

That would be interesting for triage and siege. It would really make Black Hole systems popular for C5-6 escalation farmers, as their dreads and carriers would be essentially uber tanking all the things, coasting out, and collecting loot pinata.

The tradeoff to this, of course, would be that it would affect the fleets and fits of people farming and PVPing in lower-end wormholes. This would be countered, possibly, by capacitor warfare, which would be super effective at knocking down the weak capacitor of all the active-tanked ships we would see fielded in the Black Holes.

Cap battery XLASB Maelstroms would be a thing, finally, like we always wanted.

It has its merits, but it is also open to wild, wild exploitation by crystals, drugs, boosters, the new m odules, the oncoming buff to repairer boost amounts, etc etc etc. It would, in short, result in ridicutanked everything, all the time.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

How about something completely different such as a manufacturing bonus?

Should be easy enough to work into the lore. The huge gravity from a BH makes combining alloty easier (high pressure reduces all this kind of crap)

I dont do manufacturing personally but it will bring some industrialists into wh's.

Some kind of mining / reprocessing bonus
Ship building bonus
Less POS fuel needed in towers
Bonus to research

It's not mu job to come up with specifics but I think manufacturing wh will make them worth fighting for in the high end and beneficial to have in the C1-C3 range with easy access to k-space.

On the other hand, all new activity benefits W-space. It does not matter what that activity is one of the nice things about new features and changes is that they encourage adaptation from the current player base.

It would be a failure to W-space if no one was interested in this system effect.

The balance and key to the industry effect will be exactly: High Sec VS Wormhole Bonus

So maybe in the end, High Sec industry will need to be evaluated and balanced before an industry effect WH bonus be introduced.

I tend to agree with Nix, Black holes dont need to be "fixed". I find the industrial effects interesting but I am not sure how beneficial that would be.

In general black holes are devoid of life and serve as WH hubs, whenever we roll into a black hole we know 2 things.
1. It is probably empty and full of relic/data/gas sites and so provides potential ganks for people running them.
2. It likely has a pile of outgoing K spaces waiting to be opened. Thus serving our logistical needs for that day if we are lucky.

I like these facts, I dont know why everone thinks every wormhole needs to benefit them in special ways. If anything their bonuses ahve led them to evovle into a system with its own unique purpose in WHs and i find that better than half the other stupid wh effects.

The way I look at black holes is that in comparison to the other wormhole types, they provide no advantage for any sort of setup, only disadvantages. That is to say this:

Pulsar: Favors using shield
Wolf-rayet: Favors using armor
Red Giant: Favors the use of smartbombs and potentially overload
Magnetar: Used to favor the use of EWAR (and it still should tbh, need to look at this as well)
Cataclysmic: Favors the use of RR and teamplay

Black Hole: Favors nothing

I suppose the intent was that it was to favor kiting/speed based setups, but the issue that the inertia nerf makes that impossible because kiting is all about range control not just pure speed and range. Furthermore, the nerfs to damage projection and targeting range make kiting unfavorable, leaving the wormhole a place for close range speed brawling (???) which really makes no sense and has no place in the current meta.

While these effects could just be adjusted to make the wormhole in line with the rest, I think that that approach is a little bit trite and wormholes deserve some more interesting mechanics. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I think the idea of having multiple statics in black holes, and a lack of moons would be really neat. Instead of making the wormhole "effects" actual effects on your ship, make it effects on the environment of the system. Make moons non-existant, make static spawning less predictable, give it a random static, random number of statics, or even give it a propensity towards being opened into.

It would be very cool to have black holes be "hub" wormhole systems where at any time there are 20-30 wormholes of all classes opened into these holes, would potentially allow for more "top belt in amamake" style fights, which would be really neat.