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Wormholes

 
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Black Hole Systems

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Author
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#41 - 2013-08-08 18:18:23 UTC
Can't you just go from acceleration of things to 'slow things down'?

Currently, the most annoying thing in Eve is 'recalling Warrior IIs you dropped for any reason whatsoever', so if a wormhole would just reduce maximum velocity of a ship, it would even play arguably alright together with those other current effects. Or so.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#42 - 2013-08-08 18:19:09 UTC
Black hole effect : No D-scan Twisted

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Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#43 - 2013-08-08 18:31:13 UTC
Couldn't think of something good myself, but I like these two ideas best:

SMT008 wrote:
Not a single WH effect offers a bonus to missiles.

So I would say, for a C6 BlackHole :

+100% Missile Explosion Velocity
+100% Target Painter Efficiency (So that it's 2 times better, that's what I mean)
+50% Missile Velocity

If it was just me, I would make it a place for Armor-Missile ships. Ie Sacrilege, HAM Legions, Torp-Typhoons and the like.

There are not many places where those are favored over Blaster-Prots.

Also, I'd like to attract your attention on an important fact (for me, at least) :

There are almost no battleships in wormholes.

What I mean is that yes, T3 > Battleship. That's ok, that's how it is, I'm not arguing about that. I'm arguing about the fact that Battleships really can't be used in wormholes except for a couple Bhaalgorns, Vindics and Armageddons.

The Mass Issue really is a massive issue when it comes to battleship usage. A single capital ship makes a massive change. The Battleship equivalent is just about 10 pointlessesly massive ships that will get blasted off the battlefield by dreads.

Please, seriously consider a special thing that would allow Battleship doctrines to have some breathing room. I mean, that would allow them to be flyable. Sure they'll still get stomped on by Dreads but at least you can use them if you want to.

Considering the fact that T1 battleships have been heavely rebalanced, it would be a shame if we couldn't use them :(


Archdaimon wrote:
How bout making black holes _the_ place for small ships to fight.

That is give bonuses and penalties compared to size of ship. Hence huge tracking penalties to caps, less to bs etc., but almost none to frigs (maybe even bonus?)

This would make c5/6 systems where _not_ cap pilots could live and fights with out fearing the blob-blap-dreads.



As for TiDi, if something like that were to happen, I'd want it to be slower, not faster. That way Black Holes would become a kind of training system where you can think about your next move. Almost like turn-based combat. I love turn-based combat Big smile

But it won't happen, TiDi would decrease pve income and reverse TiDi would massively increase it, no chance CCP would do this.

.

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#44 - 2013-08-08 18:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
The engineer in me does not like the fact that ships and missles react differently to the same weather. Please set the missle speed bonus to match the ship speed bonus. I would prefer the remaining penalties remain as it is interesting having a pretty terrible weather type in the mix.

I do like the suggestion that black holes might have additional worm hole connections. I would rather this be done with additional periodics that lead to or from these systems rather than additional statics. Having random extra doors which lead to a variety of places is more intersting than having a reliable number of doors which go to predictable places.
Dark HicQuaVideeum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-08-08 20:22:42 UTC
i say put some into increased missile velocity and turret tracking, keep the speed strengh and add a sig reduction, keep reduced tracking and falloff, means that ppl will be able to use the speed tanking with improvement to missile damage and turret damage at close range
Cade Windstalker
#46 - 2013-08-08 20:41:43 UTC
Cipreh wrote:
No moons. Uninhabitable for any extended length of time.
More or better sites. (Someone mentioned ice in w-space?)
Multiple (2+) Statics or increased chance of K162. (Maybe shorter timers on the statics?)


The problem with this is it doesn't make Black Hole systems better it makes them something everyone else wants to find and fails to address the combat bonus/penalty problem.

Never mind all of the meta problems with having Ice in WH-space.
Poloturion
Genco Pura Olive Oil Company.
#47 - 2013-08-08 20:43:08 UTC
Ships go faster so make the other stuff go faster. Replace missile speed nerf with buff, and increase optimal / falloff on guns.

The extra static is interesting and makes sense I guess.

Removing moons is hilariously unfeasible. Believe it or not but I think there are actually some people living in black holes, and I can't imagine CCP coming along exploding their moons/POS.

Also, please fix POS.

Cade Windstalker
#48 - 2013-08-08 20:43:16 UTC
Dark HicQuaVideeum wrote:
i say put some into increased missile velocity and turret tracking, keep the speed strengh and add a sig reduction, keep reduced tracking and falloff, means that ppl will be able to use the speed tanking with improvement to missile damage and turret damage at close range


The inertia penalty still rather kills speed tanking though, and the speed boost is already enough of a buff to speed/sig tanking without double-bonusing it. Never mind that 100MN T3s are pretty common already.
Dark HicQuaVideeum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-08-08 20:49:50 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Dark HicQuaVideeum wrote:
i say put some into increased missile velocity and turret tracking, keep the speed strengh and add a sig reduction, keep reduced tracking and falloff, means that ppl will be able to use the speed tanking with improvement to missile damage and turret damage at close range


The inertia penalty still rather kills speed tanking though, and the speed boost is already enough of a buff to speed/sig tanking without double-bonusing it. Never mind that 100MN T3s are pretty common already.


then take away the inertia penalty, and dont add a sig reduction, but do increase dmg at small ranges
Mohsar Trilar
Dead Star Syndicate
#50 - 2013-08-08 21:03:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mohsar Trilar
stup idity wrote:
I like the dual static idea from above very much.
proposal 2 - move bonuses out of combat focus:
- bonus to gas harvesting
- bonus to mining
- bonus to ore compression
- more/other industry bonuses


How about we keep the inertia penalty and velocity bonus along with add significant bonuses to gas harvesting and mining. That way, miners can make more money in a black hole but the inertia penalty makes them more vulnerable to hunters. Possibly add an effect that makes ratting easier like a buff to missile damage or resistance to neuts.

Alternatively, I like the idea of Black Holes encouraging fast, brawling ships. Maybe reduce/remove the inertia penalty and add a webbing range bonus (that could be a bit crazy though).
Winthorp
#51 - 2013-08-08 21:31:25 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Why should blackholes be changed?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects

The only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too?


To be fair even in C2 and on the affect is enough to make you not bother with that WH, i mean seriously why would you live in one.
Winthorp
#52 - 2013-08-08 21:33:56 UTC
Good to see CCP are willing to listen and look at this, you mention not wanting to make dread blapping worse with a web bonus, but this is yours and CCP's chance to look at this and make this a WH effect worth fighting over. Don't avoid making the effects over the top, make it so good groups evict each other to have.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#53 - 2013-08-08 21:40:03 UTC
A different bonus is definitely a good idea, whenever we roll to a Black Hole system there is a collective groan on coms, regardless of the static.

Anything that doubles align time is just a bad idea, since it makes escaping twice as hard, and therefore makes everything unnecessarily riskier.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Winthorp
#54 - 2013-08-08 21:52:25 UTC
Dscan delay in seconds 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 - 25
Multiple static WH - WH - WH - K-space - Kspace
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#55 - 2013-08-08 22:05:41 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
make it have 2x time dilation

IE everything happens at twice the speed





seriously that would be a cool wormhole to live in...


And change the sound in Black Holes to this...Lol

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#56 - 2013-08-08 22:23:00 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Make it like the opposite of a Cat Variable, bonus to local reps, nerf remote reps in the same percentages as they are in Cat Variables

Altrue wrote:
Black hole effect : No D-scan Twisted


And black holes would be even emptier than they are now.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Cade Windstalker
#57 - 2013-08-08 22:49:07 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Make it like the opposite of a Cat Variable, bonus to local reps, nerf remote reps in the same percentages as they are in Cat Variables


This would almost completely kill Black Holes past C3 where RR is basically a requirement. Even a dread-blap fleet needs a triage carrier to stop the support ships from going pop.
TwiKnight
Super Elite Friendship Club
#58 - 2013-08-08 23:10:21 UTC
black holes should be dark dreary places. the system graphic affect should make the whole system dark with a small beam of light/radiation coming from the event horizon.
ideas for the system affects would be limiting d scan range 10% per wh level so 60% in a c6. it also should have a delay with the new scanner interface, a 2 min delay per wh level so 12 min delay in a c6 on a wh or sig popping up for your scanning window/probes to get the information. there should be some risk for farming sites and this would give people a chance to get the drop on you.
i would say keep the velocity bonus all though it should be reversed 100% in a c1 and 25% in a c6.
just like others have stated no wh has a bonus to missiles only negatives so reverse the missile velocity to positive so 50% in a c1 and 10% in a c6.
idk how feasible it would be but maybe shorten the grids in the wh's because of the black hole affect visibility would be shortened. kind of how locking range is limited now but applied to grid affects so the ship disappears into the darkness. with stretching grid mechanics idk how possible it is just a thought.
basically a black hole limits your intel because it is consuming the light in which the info would be traveling on to reach your ship and you gain increased velocity to missiles and your ship because the wh is on the very edge of the event horizon.
it would be a unique affect in the fact most of the good bonuses apply fully in low end wh's and the negatives apply fully to high end wh's.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-08-08 23:22:50 UTC
Just change the agility penalty to an agility buff and youre done.
Go faster but at better agility with range reduction on guns seems fine to me.

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Cade Windstalker
#60 - 2013-08-09 02:26:34 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Just change the agility penalty to an agility buff and youre done.
Go faster but at better agility with range reduction on guns seems fine to me.


Except that you end up shooting yourself in the foot. Great, you're faster, down-side, you have less range to play with on your kiting ship which means you're more likely to be in range of points, webs, and all that other fun stuff.