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Black Hole Systems

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Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-08 10:52:01 UTC
Hello everyone,

I would like some feedback.

Do you think black holes need change of effect? If yes then what new effects would you propose?

Thank you for your answers!

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2013-08-08 11:10:27 UTC
Adding a blue tag to this thread.

Help the CSM help CCP help you.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-08 11:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I would tone down both the positive and negative effects and maybe add some sort of damage application bonus. For example, increased optimal range and tracking for turrets and missiles.

More drastically, i would add an extra static to all black hole systems.

What does CCP/CSM see as a problem with the current black hole effects?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-08-08 11:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
make it have 2x time dilation

IE everything happens at twice the speed




seriously that would be a cool wormhole to live in...

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Freddie Merrcury
Fukushima Daiichi Electric Power Co.
#5 - 2013-08-08 11:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Freddie Merrcury
They absolutely need a change.

Reducing the inertia change to make navigation a bit less awkward would be nice.

As they are now, Black holes are the worst effect for both PvE and PvP.

PvE wise, they do nothing to make the PvE easier or faster.

From the PvP standpoint, the effect doesn't really allow any sort of special method of flying or fitting to take greater advantage of the effect.

I been kicked out of better homes than this.
Glasgow Dunlop
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-08-08 11:22:24 UTC
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
make it have 2x time dilation

IE everything happens at twice the speed




seriously that would be a cool wormhole to live in...


that and make black hole effects random for dt to dt Cool

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#7 - 2013-08-08 11:27:36 UTC
How about a slight bonus to warp disruptor and scrambler strength and the efficiency of stasis webifiers but a penalty to ship velocity and weapon range? This would use the theme of the vicinity of black holes being hard to get out of. Though now that I think of it, any and all bonuses to webifiers are more than slightly risky so the downside to weapon systems would have tp be pretty dramatic to avoid obvious consequences with dreads.

This might make black holes a bit too good though. It is not a bad thing that there is a difference between the desirability of wormhole effects. Problem with black holes is not that they are bad, but that they are bad in a very uninteresting way.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-08 11:31:15 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
How about a slight bonus to warp disruptor and scrambler strength and the efficiency of stasis webifiers but a penalty to ship velocity and weapon range? This would use the theme of the vicinity of black holes being hard to get out of. Though now that I think of it, any and all bonuses to webifiers are more than slightly risky so the downside to weapon systems would have tp be pretty dramatic to avoid obvious consequences with dreads.

This might make black holes a bit too good though. It is not a bad thing that there is a difference between the desirability of wormhole effects. Problem with black holes is not that they are bad, but that they are bad in a very uninteresting way.


Anything to do with webs would help farming and dread blaping. I think we don't want dread blaping to be more effective than it is right now.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-08 11:32:08 UTC
Why should blackholes be changed?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects

The only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too?

Don't ban me, bro!
Bloemkoolsaus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-08 11:38:37 UTC
Glasgow Dunlop wrote:
that and make black hole effects random for dt to dt Cool


That would make things interesting.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-08-08 11:41:44 UTC
Not a single WH effect offers a bonus to missiles.

So I would say, for a C6 BlackHole :

+100% Missile Explosion Velocity
+100% Target Painter Efficiency (So that it's 2 times better, that's what I mean)
+50% Missile Velocity

If it was just me, I would make it a place for Armor-Missile ships. Ie Sacrilege, HAM Legions, Torp-Typhoons and the like.

There are not many places where those are favored over Blaster-Prots.

Also, I'd like to attract your attention on an important fact (for me, at least) :

There are almost no battleships in wormholes.

What I mean is that yes, T3 > Battleship. That's ok, that's how it is, I'm not arguing about that. I'm arguing about the fact that Battleships really can't be used in wormholes except for a couple Bhaalgorns, Vindics and Armageddons.

The Mass Issue really is a massive issue when it comes to battleship usage. A single capital ship makes a massive change. The Battleship equivalent is just about 10 pointlessesly massive ships that will get blasted off the battlefield by dreads.

Please, seriously consider a special thing that would allow Battleship doctrines to have some breathing room. I mean, that would allow them to be flyable. Sure they'll still get stomped on by Dreads but at least you can use them if you want to.

Considering the fact that T1 battleships have been heavely rebalanced, it would be a shame if we couldn't use them :(
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-08 11:42:32 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Why should blackholes be changed?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects

The only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too?


/me Not sure if troll or not

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-08-08 11:47:27 UTC
It's a troll chitsa... he answered his own question in the same sentence.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#14 - 2013-08-08 11:47:59 UTC
How bout making black holes _the_ place for small ships to fight.

That is give bonuses and penalties compared to size of ship. Hence huge tracking penalties to caps, less to bs etc., but almost none to frigs (maybe even bonus?)

This would make c5/6 systems where _not_ cap pilots could live and fights with out fearing the blob-blap-dreads.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-08-08 11:57:31 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Why should blackholes be changed?

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects

The only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too?


/me Not sure if troll or not


Not trolling. The question was clear....why change blackhole effects? They're perfectly acceptable in lower class w-space. Everyone I've seen complain about them lives in higher class wh's. I think I know why. I just want others to state why. Shouldn't they state their case other than what I hear on comms time and time again..."OMG blackholes, I hate blackholes, can't align for sht, too much travel time, wah".

And the only reason to change them is to buff income afaik. So yeah, I think lower classes should get a buff as well since we don't get lucrative cap escalations from the same sites for 3 days.

Don't ban me, bro!
Sith1s Spectre
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-08-08 11:59:17 UTC
People may troll me for it, but you could always keep the current status of them and the trade off is they spawn ice anoms (and will be the only to do so). Least the barges will be easy to gank in them and will give the Indy people something to be happy about

Resident forum troll and fashion consultant
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-08 12:04:45 UTC
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
People may troll me for it, but you could always keep the current status of them and the trade off is they spawn ice anoms (and will be the only to do so). Least the barges will be easy to gank in them and will give the Indy people something to be happy about


We are speaking about change of system effects not additional content.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-08-08 12:21:27 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Sith1s Spectre wrote:
People may troll me for it, but you could always keep the current status of them and the trade off is they spawn ice anoms (and will be the only to do so). Least the barges will be easy to gank in them and will give the Indy people something to be happy about


We are speaking about change of system effects not additional content.


2x time dilation, you did it with alliance tourney you can do it with this :)

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-08-08 12:39:09 UTC
would there be anyway to give black holes more statics

Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-08-08 12:44:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sushi Nardieu
I believe the criteria should be neutral effects. Neutral effects are systems like red giants. Another system effect like a wolf rayet or pulsar will just amplify some of the issues CCP are having difficulty dealing with. Those issues are things like links to capitals. I would be against a system that specifically bonuses laser platforms or missile platforms specifically. This would just make ad-hoc fleet fights a simple matter of rock paper scissors.

Some effects that I'd like to see in W-space with no particular emphasis on it being in one effect:

Speed Bonus: but not at an expense of anything else. This can be split into two types for even more variety. AB speed bonus or MWD speed bonus. You could also increase the capacitor cost of these modules in this system to make players choose when they need to use the bonus.

Local Rep Bonus: Without giving additional buffs like capacitor or resists. At least nothing too strong for capitals. Neuting bonus can be paired maybe? It is against my opinion that system effects dictate the tactics you use, there should be multiple viable tactics and not just ONE.

Interdiction bubble size: Make bubbles huge in this system. HICs and DICs included. A downside might be increased cycle time or something like that. This should not affect anchored bubbles because it could get abused.

Battleship gun bonus: Wolf Rayets give bonus to small guns, why not encourage battleships again. They are cool Cool

Sensor Strength Bonus: Pair this with scanning strength so you can still scan down ships like you would in other systems. Combat scanning creates content so it would be bad to make this hard. Nothing is better than giving Falcons a big middle finger.

And finally, the last bonus effect to create a flamewar. DO we want a system bonus effect that makes PVE AKA Money Making better? This will be a serious conflict driver system effect that people want to invade. A system that requires constant activity. A king of the hill system. Maybe make it have 2-5 moons max.

The Guns of Knowledge 
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