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The Righteousness of Vitoc

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-10-28 03:06:18 UTC
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Why expose myself and stand up for what I believe in? I think you should understand the merits of being brave.


Please, Rek. Kithrus? Bravery? I was just beginning to regain my respect for your intellect. Blink

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#22 - 2011-10-28 04:08:56 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Rek Jaiga wrote:
Why expose myself and stand up for what I believe in? I think you should understand the merits of being brave.


Please, Rek. Kithrus? Bravery? I was just beginning to regain my respect for your intellect. Blink


Of all things you honestly think I'm a coward?

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#23 - 2011-10-28 06:41:17 UTC
Kithrus wrote:

...Some people must lead and others must follow, if everyone leads then no one is following and we have chaos...


I'm sure that it's simply some sort of cosmic coincidence that your faith just happened to place your people into that position of dominance? Roll

As for chaos it seems the rest of the cluster, certainly the Minmatar, were perfectly happy to follow their own destinies before the Amarr interfered with their "reclaiming".

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-10-28 08:10:22 UTC
Kithrus wrote:
Of all things you honestly think I'm a coward?


Yes. Yes I do.

All Amarrian loyalists are cowards, of the lowest, most reprehensible order.

But you in particular.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Kithrus
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#25 - 2011-10-28 09:39:44 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
Of all things you honestly think I'm a coward?


Yes. Yes I do.

All Amarrian loyalists are cowards, of the lowest, most reprehensible order.

But you in particular.


Okay just making sure.

Darkness is more then absence of light, it is ignorance and corruption. I will be the Bulwark from such things that you may live in the light. Pray so my arms do not grow weary and my footing remain sure.

If you are brave, join me in the dark.

Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-10-28 10:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Khazarn Areth
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Kithrus wrote:
Of all things you honestly think I'm a coward?


Yes. Yes I do.

All Amarrian loyalists are cowards, of the lowest, most reprehensible order.

But you in particular.


Whilst i am inclined to agree due to my burning hatred of those loyal to the wretched empress the above statement is mostly false, while there are admittedly many loyalist cowards out there i have met a few who gave a good account of themselves before they ended their days in a blooding farm.

And onto the subject of Vitoc, an ingenious creation that allows the whims of one to dictate the many, the answer lies simply on your views of rightiousness as it is a belief grounded not in morals but in faith.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#27 - 2011-10-28 13:15:16 UTC
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?

Or are you just going to shout "heretic" and various other personal insults at each other, hmm?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Daniel L'Siata
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#28 - 2011-10-28 13:29:23 UTC
Isn't that what normally happens? Lots of personal insults and word play, very little actual content?
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#29 - 2011-10-28 16:34:49 UTC
Look you all upon this witch, who seeks to turn our true faith into heresy. He is a creature of darkness and heresy. She and all her kind are here on mission to seek only of our destruction!

Imperial Pharmacy does not tolerate witchcraft in our homes, and I, Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, archbishob of the Church of Providence, golden mountain, carrier of the Heaven's light, self proclaimed prophet, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, great miner, skilled industrialist, teacher of unquestioned truth, speaker of truth, the voice of reason and many more will do everything I can to extinguish your heretical cult. Peasants dont need your words, for they happy when men of God rule them. Your words only turn them into sic and mad like your followers are.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#30 - 2011-10-28 16:58:11 UTC
Valate is so unorthodox.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#31 - 2011-10-28 17:28:05 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?


The ideals in the Apocryphon scare them too much to even consider, you're going to have to just deal with the cries of "heretic"

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#32 - 2011-10-28 17:41:34 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?


The ideals in the Apocryphon scare them too much to even consider, you're going to have to just deal with the cries of "heretic"


And what of the other passages of Scripture, hmm?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-10-28 18:01:58 UTC
Khazarn Areth wrote:
Whilst i am inclined to agree due to my burning hatred of those loyal to the wretched empress the above statement is mostly false


No, it's entirely true.

The entire Amarrian culture is one of cowardice. The Amarrian religion absolves each and every person who follows it of personal responsibility and guilt for the utterly heinous actions they undertake. It gives a cosy and convenient excuse for the truly infinite variety of barbarous acts the Amarrians have undertaken over the years - an easy excuse, that what they did was merely, at worst, an unfortunate responsibility of acting out God's will. Never again must an Amarrian worry about the consequences of his actions, for if he is truly righteous, God will forgive him! He can murder, cheat, lie, steal, ****, enslave, abuse, wreck, poison to his heart's content - and as long as it can be spun as somehow being a service to God, it is only a regretable duty in His Divine Service.

This religion has spawned some truly staggering acts of cowardice - the wholesale genocide of two races, the conquest and enslavement of a society who wanted nothing to do with their religion, the poisoning of millions to ensure obedience. Even more perversely, it removes from an Amarrian the credit of his virtues - all that's good in him is a gift from God, not a consequence of his own actions or beliefs. They cannot even take true responsibility for the good deeds they do.

Every Loyalist is born a coward and dies a coward.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#34 - 2011-10-28 18:02:25 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?


The ideals in the Apocryphon scare them too much to even consider, you're going to have to just deal with the cries of "heretic"


And what of the other passages of Scripture, hmm?


I still consider myself highly sceptical of their origins and created purpose. But that's more based on my view of religions in general.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Saikoyu
Rho Dynamics
#35 - 2011-10-28 22:17:48 UTC
On the original topic of Vitoc, and the toxin that it temporarily relieves, I will say this. It is a poison the likes of which should never have been created, and which should be destroyed. It reduces one to the basic instincts of pain and pleasure, and you will do anything, anything at all, to take Vitoc, and feel the pleasure and not the pain for another day. That anyone could call such righteous is a cruel joke. I would not use the Vitoc method on my worst enemy.

Siakoyu Eblis-Kad

Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#36 - 2011-10-29 00:50:12 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?

Or are you just going to shout "heretic" and various other personal insults at each other, hmm?


Your link between righteousness and Vitoc is non-existent, there is nothing to counter. Vitoc is a tool, nothing more.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#37 - 2011-10-29 08:15:27 UTC
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?

Or are you just going to shout "heretic" and various other personal insults at each other, hmm?


Your link between righteousness and Vitoc is non-existent, there is nothing to counter. Vitoc is a tool, nothing more.


An unrighteous tool.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Nola Doyle
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-10-29 09:39:24 UTC
Valerie Valate,

According to what is Written, your interpretation suggests enlightenment is achieved through a combination of personal hardship, servitude, and a capacity to, and I quote, 'embrace God's Love'. The basis of your judgement that Vitoc is an unrighteous tool appears founded upon the notion that the recipient of said anti-toxin has their perceptions altered by this drug, and is unfit to embrace your deity's affections. Given these statements, one could perceive that any influence upon one's capacity to interpret God's Love may be of a malicious or unproductive nature. This presents a quandry in which one is forced to decide which influences are positive or negative on the subject to achieve optimal enlightenment.

If one were to break these influential factors into three distinct segments: Subjugation, Hardship, and Embracing Love, we see that the first two influences are imposed upon by the Controller, while the embrace must be a personal decision made by the subject. Since it is quite clear that coercion under duress is a required element in the submission of its 'lesser' species, it seems apparent that what is Written accepts this influence as a positive attribute in the process. Because physical hardship and forced servitude can have just as much an impact upon an individuals reasoning faculty's and chemical processes (nutrition, physical exertion, etc.) as any active chemical ingredient, reasoning would imply that any state could have a potential impact on the subjects ability to embrace your deity. And provided this influence is provided by a member of the chosen people of God, any influence is a positive influence.

However, I find that like most religious texts, the contradictions and vagueness of what is Written, makes interpretation of these documents a haphazard guess at best. In my experience, this characteristic of subjugation of individuals, offering a falsehood of choice of love or death, to accept an idea they may be unable to resist, rather typical of Amarrian culture. One must seriously question the legitimacy of a society that offers Love or Death as the final solution to the essential linchpin to the function of their civilization.

A practical and humane solution to this quandry would be to engineer favorable circumstances where the subject accepts this love under the pretension that is their choice, not that it is being forced upon them. In scientific studies, the act of removing the staff from the experiment ensures that contamination is kept to a minimum and natural results can be achieved. Given that there are far more effective tools on the market on hand to achieve this solution, Vitoc is a rather crude, blunt instrument that promises less than optimal levels of contamination and even less effective results according to what is Written.

None of this surprises me in the slightest.

Regards,
Nola J. Doyle
Khazarn Areth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-10-29 10:44:47 UTC
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Valerie Valate wrote:
So, did anyone have a counterinterpretation of Scripture?

Or are you just going to shout "heretic" and various other personal insults at each other, hmm?


Your link between righteousness and Vitoc is non-existent, there is nothing to counter. Vitoc is a tool, nothing more.


A vicious and useful tool, i find myself somewhat envious of the scientists that created such a drug with the effects it has, a sense of euphoria followed by days of agonising pain unless antidote is administered, beautiful.

Bloody Omir's coming back Monsters from the endless black Wading through a crimson flood Omir's come to drink your blood

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2011-10-29 11:20:28 UTC
What is really beautiful with Vitoxin is not so much its effects, but the scientific achievement, knowing how the virus mutates regularily and follows patterns of evolution that ask for new verions of Vitoc to be created (taking these patterns into account), while the disease itself can not be healed that way. Which means that the creation of the Vitoxin took into account the need for a way to neutralize the toxin itself (with the Vitoc drug), but the cure of the virus itself is hard to achieve, especially if you do not take into account the invention of the still unstable insorum.

This is a very advanced technology, and a masterpiece of genetic engineering.