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So why are C4's considered the worst WH?
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Magnus Saken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-08-08 03:59:37 UTC
i been planning on moving to one but i see in the forums everyone thinks that C4's are just for farmers... why is this? Why are they so empty according to people here?

Someone was also saying they never get wandering WH's.. so does that mean the most connections you will get to your wh is your static and possibly someone elses static coming into you?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#2 - 2013-08-08 05:39:52 UTC
They do get wandering wormholes.

The reason they aren't favoured?

Disadvantages:

  • No k-space
  • No cap escalations and no exit for caps
  • Tough sleepers who don't exceed C3's for ISK/hr (except in, eg, Magnetars and Pulsars)
  • Bad logistics. Typical chain? C4-C4-C3-U210-20 jumps to Jita. Typical C5 chain? C5-(Z*C5)-Lowsec-JF to Otosela


Advantages?

  • Isolation - perfect bearing systems
  • C4-C4 statics...can be lucrative because most C4's are empty and hence massive loads of sites build up.
  • N766 static wormholes. Easymode logistics!
  • C5 static wormholes - gas ninjas! (without having a E545 to null like some C2's)
  • C1 statics. Nub mining!
  • C4 Blackholes - just good enough to be good, just bad enough to be bad! 2km/s fighters FTW!


C4's really only suffer from the no K-space connections. The ISk isn't too bad, you can farm effectively with one Thanny and 2 Dominixes solo triple-boxing and rake in billions. For small, committed, organised groups the C4-C4 is extremely lucrative, but it's not a PVPer's paradise. The ISk isn't escalatable like C5 and C6's, you can't use caps in attacks, and they are deserted, so larger alliances avoid them.

To be honest, when you see multiple C4's loaded with 40+ sites, you do want to go farm them...but you may as well do it from a C2 with B274/Y683.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Zara Arran
Overload This
#3 - 2013-08-08 06:47:45 UTC
C4's are quite good for starting groups as well, depending on the static you choose. For a corp that needs to build up in strength first, and acquire knowledge on WH life first, a C4 is a great starting point. There is not a strong eviction threat the entire time, and with an active static, you can dictate your playstyle (whether that is finding pew, production etc). Then move to another WH once you get some strength and numbers.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-08 11:47:21 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
They do get wandering wormholes.

The reason they aren't favoured?

Disadvantages:


  • Tough sleepers who don't exceed C3's for ISK/hr (except in, eg, Magnetars and Pulsars)



Advantages?

  • Isolation - perfect bearing systems
  • C4-C4 statics...can be lucrative because most C4's are empty and hence massive loads of sites build up.




We role multiple c4's daily. About 1 in 4 is empty. I'm thinking you're holding on to info from last year, really. I haven't found a really good jackpot of a system in a while.

Don't ban me, bro!
Rastin Crysknife
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-08-08 18:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rastin Crysknife
Depends wholly on the statics, I think, and C4s typically have some less desirable statics. As previously stated, no direct-to-hisec statics, and frequently you'll see C4s with C5 statics, which is dangerous. C5s frequently are occupied by some of the more well funded/manned WH corps because of escalation ISK.

That means a lot of heavy-hitting battleships and Tech3s can invade your hole, but the only hole you can reasonably invade on a regular basis is probably going to have locals with Capital support, and have sites that need capital support to really capitalize on (no pun intended). Note that you cannot bring a capital ship through any wormhole that has a C1-4 or hisec on one of the sides.

That said, a C4 with a C4 static isn't significantly better ISK wise than a C2 or C3 with a C4 static because you should clear out most of the sites from your home system in relatively short order, and you will depend on rolling your static for making ISK after the first couple of weeks or so, if not sooner. C2s and C3s frequently have Hi-sec statics on top of some sort of W-space static.

Bob is always present, watching you traverse space accessable only though wormholes. He is the constant reminder that there is always someone watching you, waiting for your moment of weakness to appear and claim his toll for collecting the bounty of his realm.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-08-08 22:36:18 UTC
As member of the undisputed best C4 corp out there, C4 SPACE, BEST SPACE!

Nah but seriously, there is no difference between a C4 and a C2 with the same WH static other than it being easier to be a lazy fkr and not need to scan in a C2.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Bloody Wench
#7 - 2013-08-08 22:49:27 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
They do get wandering wormholes.



Not in the years I've been in C4 have I even seen anything other than a 162 or the static for the system.

Give me the # of such a WH. EG (M555) hisec to C5.
None exists in the DB.

Your other points are valid.

C4 are the 'end game' solo (triple client) PVE systems.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Bloody Wench
#8 - 2013-08-08 22:56:18 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:


C4's really only suffer from the no K-space connections.


This is not a con for C4 systems it's a pro. This is a good thing, possibly the best thing.

Have you been to k-space recently? Have you seen the people that go there?

Makes my skin crawl.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-08-08 23:37:24 UTC
I think generally it is because C4's generally have the logistical negatives of other high end wormholes without the cap escalation benefits of a C5
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#10 - 2013-08-08 23:49:19 UTC
The T405 to C4 will spawn in a C4.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Bloody Wench
#11 - 2013-08-09 00:06:02 UTC
I stand corrected, they are at least in the DB.

I also stand by the 'never seen one' statement.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-09 00:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Bloody Wench wrote:
I stand corrected, they are at least in the DB.

I also stand by the 'never seen one' statement.



Same here. I've only ever seen T405's coming from other WH's (like a C3) into a C4. So far in a year I've never seen anything but a C4 static or incoming k162's

BTW /waves at Trinkets. Good to see you back in WH space.
Delilah Wells
Ars Venandi
#13 - 2013-08-09 11:22:30 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The T405 to C4 will spawn in a C4.


just had t405 in a c2 leading to c4.
So i can't confirm your statement.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#14 - 2013-08-09 13:28:23 UTC
it is somewhat of a misnomer that C4's are terrible. It is the best system to...

1) be deep in wormhole space, where daytrippers generally won't fly
2) Be isolated (Sometimes VERY isolated).
3) Not worry about capital fleets jumping in.

When people talk about the logistics issues, there really specifically saying "I can't get a jump freighter in there". Your stuck with Industrials and Orca's (which 99% of the people use anyway to move stuff into holes to preserve the mass.

you don't get the "once a month" wandering lowsec/nullsec/highsec holes. It is probably the deepest into wormhole space you can be.

Odd cause there are two holes higher than it, but if you really want to be the rogue band, c4 is what your looking for.

It is a balancing game. With how the C5/C6 life is shaping, C4's are becoming... a little more busy.

Yaay!!!!
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-08-09 13:32:51 UTC
Delilah Wells wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
The T405 to C4 will spawn in a C4.


just had t405 in a c2 leading to c4.
So i can't confirm your statement.

Eh? All the wandering C2->C4 connections I've seen are Y683s, just like the static C2->C4 connections. (Ever seen 2 Y683s in the same system? :)
Shazeen Zerubu
Master Bait and Tackle
#16 - 2013-08-10 01:07:32 UTC
Living in a C4/C2.

Happy camper Smile
If you have few pilots its good fun. I enjoy my time in a C4 (first wh experience).
Logi is not really an issue if you can plan ahead. Bring some parts back every time you go out and fuel is done.
ISK is ok, gfs are possible :)

C4 is a good place to learn the ropes imo.


Remember to do as we do:

Sacrifice rifters at the sun every midnight.
Hikaru Kuroda
Extheria
#17 - 2013-08-13 13:20:44 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
It is a balancing game. With how the C5/C6 life is shaping, C4's are becoming... a little more busy.


Can you please explain how C5/C6 are changing?

Thank you very much, sir.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#18 - 2013-08-13 22:34:42 UTC
A C4 with a good static is a gold mine.

Not so much a PvP goldmine.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Winthorp
#19 - 2013-08-14 05:19:48 UTC
IMO C4's are considered only really for PVE and that's not to say they are bad at all but if you move to a C4 it is basically to bear it up due to the closed off nature of C4's

I really wish they would give C4's a dual static either an extra k-space or a second WH static.
Enmesharra
Giggle Inc
#20 - 2013-08-14 16:01:41 UTC
Ganking russians. Russians everywhere.
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