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Rokh vs. Raven for Lvl4's

Author
Dia Saol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-08-13 01:05:31 UTC
Aleph Mersenne wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Rokh doesn't have a damage bonus.

I prefer Raven Navy Issue as it has higher DPS than a Raven. I've never understood the attraction of a Scorpion Navy issue: same gank as a plain Raven, but with more tank... tank that you don't need for missions.

The SNI has its uses. Its gank is slightly better than a standard Raven as you can fit four BCUs without sacrificing tank, and it can better apply it's damage to small targets as you can put two rigors and a flare in the rig slots instead of capacitor control circuits. It can also lock at greater ranges even without using a sensor booster.

Its tank is great for a lower SP mission runner. Even with middling skills it can run every L4 without issue, and you don't need to panic if you accidentally aggro an entire room.

I'll be upgrading to an RNI at some point, but right now the SNI fits my needs perfectly.


...
.....
Why would you be fitting CCC rigs or using low slots for anything to do with tank?
You can fit 80% of your tank in one slot. Put an MJD in, jump, kill them before they get in range. MJD means you can do angel bonus room while forgetting shield boosters exist.

I also don't see any need for a Scorpion. Obviously RNI has more DPS than a normal Raven but Normal Raven vs SNI you are giving up range for unneeded tank.

I sometimes overtank my RNI so if I'm super lazyfk I can sit in the middle of everything and just click fire occasionally. When actively missioning, a 3-4 slot tank is fine. MJD, 1 Invuln, 1 shield booster, and you can put a boost amp or a second hardener if it's something like raider/sansha hitting your EM weakness.
Mingja
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-08-13 14:36:21 UTC
Dia Saol wrote:
Aleph Mersenne wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Rokh doesn't have a damage bonus.

I prefer Raven Navy Issue as it has higher DPS than a Raven. I've never understood the attraction of a Scorpion Navy issue: same gank as a plain Raven, but with more tank... tank that you don't need for missions.

The SNI has its uses. Its gank is slightly better than a standard Raven as you can fit four BCUs without sacrificing tank, and it can better apply it's damage to small targets as you can put two rigors and a flare in the rig slots instead of capacitor control circuits. It can also lock at greater ranges even without using a sensor booster.

Its tank is great for a lower SP mission runner. Even with middling skills it can run every L4 without issue, and you don't need to panic if you accidentally aggro an entire room.

I'll be upgrading to an RNI at some point, but right now the SNI fits my needs perfectly.


...
.....
Why would you be fitting CCC rigs or using low slots for anything to do with tank?
You can fit 80% of your tank in one slot. Put an MJD in, jump, kill them before they get in range. MJD means you can do angel bonus room while forgetting shield boosters exist.

I also don't see any need for a Scorpion. Obviously RNI has more DPS than a normal Raven but Normal Raven vs SNI you are giving up range for unneeded tank.

I sometimes overtank my RNI so if I'm super lazyfk I can sit in the middle of everything and just click fire occasionally. When actively missioning, a 3-4 slot tank is fine. MJD, 1 Invuln, 1 shield booster, and you can put a boost amp or a second hardener if it's something like raider/sansha hitting your EM weakness.


While I agree with you on overtanking/using a SNI because of the tank:

MJD doesn't do any good for you either - you can't use drones, you can't use tp's and you can't use precision missiles upwards of 111 KM.. yes, you won't need tank if you use it, but the difference between a 4 slot and a 5 slot tank isn't that huge, especially if you can't make use of the mid-slot you gained from using only 4 slots.

Dia Saol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-08-14 00:53:01 UTC
Mingja wrote:


While I agree with you on overtanking/using a SNI because of the tank:

MJD doesn't do any good for you either - you can't use drones, you can't use tp's and you can't use precision missiles upwards of 111 KM.. yes, you won't need tank if you use it, but the difference between a 4 slot and a 5 slot tank isn't that huge, especially if you can't make use of the mid-slot you gained from using only 4 slots.




Somewhat true. I can use TPs with MJDs, not to the max range of my missiles/targeting, but close. Optimal + Falloff goes up to 145km. Now obviously in falloff there is a chance it won't land, but it lands far more often than it doesn't since even at 145km its 50% and most of the things I paint after MJD end up in the 80-110 range.

My point regarding the number of slots for tank was more to counter the insane claim made
"Its gank is slightly better than a standard Raven as you can fit four BCUs without sacrificing tank"
.... suggesting that he would be using something tank related in the lows on a Raven.

Also the idea of using CCC rigs over rigor/flare rigs. 5-6 slot tank is fine, but why would you ever use CCCs on Raven/SNI/RNI or any missile ship. With range you shouldn't need to be using a booster much, meaning you don't have much cap drain. If you say screw range AND have weak tank, use a cap booster, not CCC rigs.

Also As far as TP/Precision, you don't need those for battleships, or really battlecruisers. MJD, target those first and by that time the faster ships (frigs/cruisers) will be closer but still not close enough to hit you.

I don't MJD every mission, most require such little tank anyway, but I also have almost maxed missile and shield skills (compensations to 4 and cruise spec to 4, everything else 5). Someone with less tank and gank might use it more often. It really doesn't have much effect on dps. I don't use drones for anything but frigs, if they get close enough, which isn't very often even when I don't MJD. Lights don't do enough damage to matter to anything bigger, and mediums get shot too much while also barely doing anything (max drone skills as well). The only thing that a MJD really effects is that you have to volley count, since it doesn't hit until after the next volley has started.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-08-15 07:48:14 UTC
SNI has its benefit for low SP players. You can skimp on training int-mem support until you have high missile skills. A MJD fit accomplishes the same realistically.

Precision missiles should not be used IMHO. The reload time is just not worth it compared to blapping away with TP's.

The biggest benefit of MJD comes with sentries. MJD range allows blapping stuff on direct approach, sweet spot for killing frigs with the 3 sentries. This leaves the sentries time on BS targets.
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