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Do away with Tier for ships. (Protest not features)
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Jenshae Chiroptera
#21 - 2011-10-28 13:41:00 UTC
I feel that the T1 cruisers, since they aren't battle cruisers - should just be more specialised in their roles, for example, those Osprey or Execqrors could have -10% cap usage for their remote repair modules too.

The mining cruisers could do with some cargo space love so that they warp back and forth less frequently, so forth and so on.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Alara IonStorm
#22 - 2011-10-28 13:47:54 UTC
Copied post from 9 days ago before Beta Hybrid Grid Changes were made available.

Omen: + PG/CPU

Thorax: + PG

Stabber: move 1 high to a mid add a low, + 10% Speed, change the speed bonus to +7.5 falloff, add 20m2 Drone space

Osprey: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to +5 Shield Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Energy Transfer

Augoror: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Armor Bonus to +5 Energy Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Armor RR, + 10m2 Drone Space

Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links

Scythe: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, Move High to a mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to Shield Transfer Cap Use, Range bonus effect Shield Transfer, +15 Drone Space

Maller: Prophecy, Punisher: Change Laer Cap use bonus to 5% Dmg.

Caracal: +1 Low Slot PG and CPU to accommodate.

Vexor: +1 Mid or Low plus CPU/PG to accommodate.

Bellicose: 5% Dmg changed into 20% Bonus to Web Range

Celestis: 5% Dmg changed into 10% Bonus to Scram/Point Range

That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)
Doddy
Excidium.
#23 - 2011-10-28 13:56:52 UTC
Make my bait prophecies more expensive and i will be very angry. Only one of the tier 1 bcs that has an issue atm is ferox which suffers from the twin problems of caldari rail bonus (optimal yay) and the drakes excesses. Even then that will be helped a bit by the proposed hybrid buff. Tier 1 bs are all fine. Just because ships don't fit in your cookie cutter "this other more expensive ship would beat it 1v1 it must be crap" way of looking at eve doesn't mean other people don't like them just fine. Are you seriously saying boost geddon? The tier 1 cruisers are a bit broken in their logistic roles, could do with a fitting bonus like logis yeah. Nothing to do with tiering though they just got left behind. Tier 1 frigates are a vital part of the game for noobs, boosting their price is unfair on them

If you are going to boost them to tier 3 performance you will need to boost the price, thus cutting people off from using them. Basically a terrible idea.
Doddy
Excidium.
#24 - 2011-10-28 13:59:00 UTC
Oh and yeah the omen is screwed, again nothing to with tiering but it really needs fixed.
Alara IonStorm
#25 - 2011-10-28 14:02:32 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Oh and yeah the omen is screwed, again nothing to with tiering but it really needs fixed.

It is not so much about Tiers as Slots, Fitting and Bonuses.

If you can keep the Tier System and base it around base stats and not slots and bonuses that would be even better.

Like Tier 2 and 3 Battleships. Same number of slots, similar fitting, good bonuses. The Tier 3's just have a little more base stats.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2011-10-28 14:04:59 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Scythe: ... Change Mining Bonus to ...
That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)


From a mining perspective, I think that T1 cruisers are an important first step, if only to show people how boring it can be before they commit to skills for a mining barge.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Alara IonStorm
#27 - 2011-10-28 14:07:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

From a mining perspective, I think that T1 cruisers are an important first step, if only to show people how boring it can be before they commit to skills for a mining barge.

At the expense of the only Repair Bonused Cruiser before a T2 Logi. EVE has no combat effective Logistics before T2.

From same thread.
_____________________

A Mining Bonus is a Waste of a Bonus that could go to something better and a Waste of Time for anyone who wants to be a Miner.

What they need to do is lower the Skill Time involved in getting a Procurer. It takes a week and a half so to get a Retreiver. You are in a Procurer for about a day before you move up. The Procurer Mines the same as an Osprey so bring the Training time in Line with it instead of wasting valuable bonus space and Training time on a Combat ship.

The best added benefit is that right now industry favors Caldari Characters, now everyone has a chance to get in on the ORE Action.
Doddy
Excidium.
#28 - 2011-10-28 14:07:45 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
How many of those would you really expect to have even a 50/50 chance with a good Drake or Hurricane? Optimum vs optimum set up and pilots?


Probably as much chance as a Rokh (tier 3) would have against a Domi (tier 1).
Jenshae Chiroptera
#29 - 2011-10-28 14:10:50 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

At the expense of ...


Why not both? When you are repping you aren't mining, not fit for it at all, so that bonus doesn't apply and vice versa. They are mutually excluding bonuses.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Alara IonStorm
#30 - 2011-10-28 14:17:06 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

At the expense of ...


Why not both? When you are repping you aren't mining, not fit for it at all, so that bonus doesn't apply and vice versa. They are mutually excluding bonuses.

Because you don't get 3 bonuses on a T1 and that bonus would b e better served with a purpose. As such only 2 of the 4 races get it. So transfer it over to ORE where it belongs and make the Procurer worth while and the Osprey at the same time.
van Uber
Loke Inc.
#31 - 2011-10-28 14:22:00 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
let me see here.

Dominix - swiss army knife. you can fit it for offense, bait, and logi.

typhoon - BAIT, bump, good dps, or dps and neuts.

scorpion - lots of ecm.

geddon, - puls lazer melter

brutix - good blaster boat, can be nano fit for lulz - see also suicide ganking.

ferox - pod and frig ganking.

cyclone - good mission boat, nice shield boost bonus.

prophecy - BAIT.

Anyway, those are all tech 1 tier 1 ships. YOU may think they have no role, but they have a role if you define one for them. Personally they are all good bait if you ask me.


So why should I fly a Ferox over a Drake again? So I can chase pods better? Sounds awful fun.
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2011-10-28 14:23:05 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:

At the expense of ...


Why not both? When you are repping you aren't mining, not fit for it at all, so that bonus doesn't apply and vice versa. They are mutually excluding bonuses.

Because you don't get 3 bonuses on a T1 and that bonus would b e better served with a purpose. As such only 2 of the 4 races get it. So transfer it over to ORE where it belongs and make the Procurer worth while and the Osprey at the same time.


Someone suggested somehwere that CCP should make an ORE frigate and an ORE cruiser to compensate for a removal of mining bonuses on the T1 cruisers and T1 frigates. that also gave me an idea that we could also make the T1 mining frigs the hacker and analyzer frigates a lot of us have always wanted.
mmorpg lol
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-10-28 14:44:06 UTC
I find it funny that people want to buff the exqueror becuase it is hard to fit. Cap boosters are blatently the way to go with this ship seeing as it has a very useful bonus to cargo bay. As for its tank, its not great but it is what one would expect from a looking at the oni. It is a baby logi and it treated as such works very well, but if you try using it as you would the T2 logi, it will not be able to pull that role off.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#34 - 2011-10-28 17:00:26 UTC
Doesn't fit enough magic pills to make it hilarious. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-10-28 17:29:41 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Caulk H0lster wrote:
If I was flying a Cyclone, for example, I probably wouldn't be very afraid of a Drake pilot I saw ratting with a character less than a year old or so.

"If they had no PVP gear and if they had less skills than me ... then I would feel confident about fighting them."

What? LolLolLol

this is SOLO PVP Cool

and this is the reason i never take all those pvp-ers seriously....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Callic Veratar
#36 - 2011-10-28 17:48:29 UTC
I like the idea of removing the mining bonus from existing frigates and cruisers. Make the mining cruisers light logistics. That way a new player can get into logistics without having to drop 100M on a T2 cruiser. The frigates could work as exploration module ships or even super-light logistics.

As a replacement for the mining ships, I would recommend 4 new race-specific mining industrials. Give them all a 20% mining laser role bonus and another pair of bonus from range, cap-use, drones, cargo, or tanking.

The NPE give you the Racial Industrial skill book, so if someone wants to mine, they could get into these ships immediately.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#37 - 2011-10-28 17:55:38 UTC
I'd like to see more unusual or utility bonuses tacked on to the t1 cruisers personally. Something that would give them more of a role for later players for odds and ends. Like a gas cloud harvester bonus. Or ramp up one's cargo capacity and drop it's align time to make a ghetto mini hauler that is a bit more robust than an indy. Or archaeology and hacking bonuses. I dunno. I like the idea of being able to optimize your play by utilizing a lot of different ships for specific tasks.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#38 - 2011-10-28 18:04:13 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
I'd like to see more unusual or utility bonuses tacked on to the t1 cruisers personally. .. Like a gas cloud harvester bonus. ..


I agree but before that I would like to see a complete gas harvesting shipBlink

Definitely think something similar to a thrasher with hacking and analysing bonuses instead of weapon ones would be great.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#39 - 2011-10-28 18:04:39 UTC
Removing the tiers and changing the different ships into specialisations is just a smart and logical thing to do. So they should all be somewhat equal in "power" but have their own niche, rather than being AND different AND worse/better. Will take a lot of planning and balancing but I do believe that by doing so we won't need new ships as such, instead we'll be able to make better use of the ships that already exist. So in the end it'll cost CCP less time and effort to make it happen compared to introducing new ships.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#40 - 2011-10-28 18:46:11 UTC
van Uber wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
let me see here.

Dominix - swiss army knife. you can fit it for offense, bait, and logi.

typhoon - BAIT, bump, good dps, or dps and neuts.

scorpion - lots of ecm.

geddon, - puls lazer melter

brutix - good blaster boat, can be nano fit for lulz - see also suicide ganking.

ferox - pod and frig ganking.

cyclone - good mission boat, nice shield boost bonus.

prophecy - BAIT.

Anyway, those are all tech 1 tier 1 ships. YOU may think they have no role, but they have a role if you define one for them. Personally they are all good bait if you ask me.


So why should I fly a Ferox over a Drake again? So I can chase pods better? Sounds awful fun.



hey, with the new pod mails coming soon TM. you too will want to kill as many pods as possible to post on your killboards and revel in the amount of isk you cost someone.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
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