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Hybrid buff: No love for hybrid ammo?
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Razor Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-27 12:41:10 UTC
The hybrid buff looks really nice but it doesnt solve the problem with hybrid charges. Even after the patch theres only 2 choices of ammo: faction antimatter or T2.

Emp, PP, Fusion and Titanium are all used by projectiles and lasers dont have to deal with reloading times so hybrids are still bit shorthanded when compared to other turrets.

I hope that devs have given some thought to mess with the T1 hybrid charge stats.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#2 - 2011-10-27 12:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Really it's only null or faction antimatter, for blasters....void is just impossible to use. The target has to be sitting still and nearly touching your ship. Faction antimatter out-damages it in the vast majority of situations due to the lack of a falloff or tracking nerf.

thhief ghabmoef
Shtu Lix
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-10-27 14:52:08 UTC
Agree, CCP should do something to the hybrid ammo too. Like decreasing size, loading time and make it all attractive, not only AM and T2
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-27 14:58:11 UTC
Hybrid ammo is hardly alone in this. Once you get t2 pulse lasers, scorch is the only ammo you really need for range, and IN Multi for close range, with the occasional conflag for when you're shooting big, slow stuff. Autocannons mainly only ever use short range (EMP/PP/Fusion) and long range t2 (barrage), haven't tried Hail myself yet. Titanium Sabot occasionally gets used due to its tracking bonus, but that's mainly just to kill frigs or drones.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#5 - 2011-10-27 15:19:38 UTC
Rails use other faction ammo to get max dps at a given range. Javelin wil be used due to tracking bonus and will replace antimatter. Spike for sniper range.

Blasters: antimatter, null, and void (use void against larger targets)
Goose99
#6 - 2011-10-27 15:46:38 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Hybrid ammo is hardly alone in this. Once you get t2 pulse lasers, scorch is the only ammo you really need for range, and IN Multi for close range, with the occasional conflag for when you're shooting big, slow stuff. Autocannons mainly only ever use short range (EMP/PP/Fusion) and long range t2 (barrage), haven't tried Hail myself yet. Titanium Sabot occasionally gets used due to its tracking bonus, but that's mainly just to kill frigs or drones.


Not true. At least on heavier boats, many vets swap ammo to fine tone range for the highest effective dmg. This is possible since laser crystals has no reload time. The small advantage of range finetoning is only worth it without reload timer. 10 sec reload time means it can't be done with hybrids.

Either:
-Remove hybrid reload timer so that swapping ammo is viable for range finetone purposes
or
-Change dmg type and consolidate range for hybrid ammos, similar to projectiles, while keeping 10 sec reload timer.
Razor Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-27 16:56:52 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Hybrid ammo is hardly alone in this. Once you get t2 pulse lasers, scorch is the only ammo you really need for range, and IN Multi for close range, with the occasional conflag for when you're shooting big, slow stuff. Autocannons mainly only ever use short range (EMP/PP/Fusion) and long range t2 (barrage), haven't tried Hail myself yet. Titanium Sabot occasionally gets used due to its tracking bonus, but that's mainly just to kill frigs or drones.


Not true. At least on heavier boats, many vets swap ammo to fine tone range for the highest effective dmg. This is possible since laser crystals has no reload time. The small advantage of range finetoning is only worth it without reload timer. 10 sec reload time means it can't be done with hybrids.

Either:
-Remove hybrid reload timer so that swapping ammo is viable for range finetone purposes
or
-Change dmg type and consolidate range for hybrid ammos, similar to projectiles, while keeping 10 sec reload timer.


Its true that for all turrets, the long range low dmg ammo is rarely used. But like Goose99 said, finetoning can be done with lasers, especially with beams. And projectiles have their different damage types. So when it comes selecting your ammo, hybrids does have the least options.

And my point is that now that CCP is giving some buff to hybrids, can they not look to this issue too?

Personally id like to see explosive component on some hybrid charges. Maybe 4 different ranges each range with thermal/kinetic and thermal/explosive.
Aamrr
#8 - 2011-10-27 17:02:02 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Hybrid ammo is hardly alone in this. Once you get t2 pulse lasers, scorch is the only ammo you really need for range, and IN Multi for close range, with the occasional conflag for when you're shooting big, slow stuff. Autocannons mainly only ever use short range (EMP/PP/Fusion) and long range t2 (barrage), haven't tried Hail myself yet. Titanium Sabot occasionally gets used due to its tracking bonus, but that's mainly just to kill frigs or drones.


Not true. At least on heavier boats, many vets swap ammo to fine tone range for the highest effective dmg. This is possible since laser crystals has no reload time. The small advantage of range finetoning is only worth it without reload timer. 10 sec reload time means it can't be done with hybrids.

Either:
-Remove hybrid reload timer so that swapping ammo is viable for range finetone purposes
or
-Change dmg type and consolidate range for hybrid ammos, similar to projectiles, while keeping 10 sec reload timer.


Scorch does about the same damage as faction X-ray. There are two ammos that give any significant damage advantage over scorch. You don't "fine tune" when scorch already does higher damage in the first place....
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-27 17:03:19 UTC
I KNOW LETS MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME
Froz3nEcho Sarain
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-10-27 17:14:27 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
I KNOW LETS MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME


Yarr! Give us laz0rzz that does EM and EXP damage!!

[i]~ When everything fades away, an echo is the only sound that will remain ~   ~ Chaos is a name for any order that produces confusion in our minds ~[/i]
Razor Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-10-27 17:40:03 UTC
Aamrr wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Hybrid ammo is hardly alone in this. Once you get t2 pulse lasers, scorch is the only ammo you really need for range, and IN Multi for close range, with the occasional conflag for when you're shooting big, slow stuff. Autocannons mainly only ever use short range (EMP/PP/Fusion) and long range t2 (barrage), haven't tried Hail myself yet. Titanium Sabot occasionally gets used due to its tracking bonus, but that's mainly just to kill frigs or drones.


Not true. At least on heavier boats, many vets swap ammo to fine tone range for the highest effective dmg. This is possible since laser crystals has no reload time. The small advantage of range finetoning is only worth it without reload timer. 10 sec reload time means it can't be done with hybrids.

Either:
-Remove hybrid reload timer so that swapping ammo is viable for range finetone purposes
or
-Change dmg type and consolidate range for hybrid ammos, similar to projectiles, while keeping 10 sec reload timer.


Scorch does about the same damage as faction X-ray. There are two ammos that give any significant damage advantage over scorch. You don't "fine tune" when scorch already does higher damage in the first place....


IIRC there was lots of whineage that scorch was way too powerful, but then projectiles got buffed and everyone kinda forgot about it...

Scorch still has superb range and damage
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-10-27 18:57:55 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
I KNOW LETS MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME



Noes, let's keep variety but let's all train minmatar or amarr, it's so much better.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-27 19:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Tanya Powers wrote:
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
I KNOW LETS MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME



Noes, let's keep variety but let's all train minmatar or amarr, it's so much better.

only matar fanboys come with this stupid excuse that it makes everything the same
they just dont want to accept matar is unbalancedly op atm and excells in every situation even in those which should be other races playground
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-10-27 19:16:30 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
I KNOW LETS MAKE EVERYTHING THE SAME



Noes, let's keep variety but let's all train minmatar or amarr, it's so much better.

only matar fanboys come with this stupid excuse that it makes everything the same
they just dont want to accept matar is unbalancedly op atm and excells in every situation even in those which should be other races playground


Yes, and they're never tired of looking like idiots.

But this is Eve
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-10-27 19:19:50 UTC
Maybe, just maybe they are changing some things and the letting it see how things work. That way they can still adjust ammo to tweak things after they see how the current changes work in the wild.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-10-27 19:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Maybe, just maybe they are changing some things and the letting it see how things work. That way they can still adjust ammo to tweak things after they see how the current changes work in the wild.


HOW DARE YOU!?!? GTFO!!!


















P
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2011-10-27 20:16:31 UTC
The changes to Projectile ammo should have been for Hybrid ammo.
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-28 02:08:41 UTC
Increase damage so I skullf*ck things harder when I can position my penis at eye level. Let me do the positioning, let the ammo do the f*cking.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Surothe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-10-28 02:20:58 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Really it's only null or faction antimatter, for blasters....void is just impossible to use. The target has to be sitting still and nearly touching your ship. Faction antimatter out-damages it in the vast majority of situations due to the lack of a falloff or tracking nerf.



Not true. They got rid of the range penalty about 8 months back at the same time they buffed the damage. Now the only issue is the tracking penalty, which can be overcome by webs or using a ship with a tracking bonus. When I fly a Vindi I don't even carry faction AM any more. True, faction AM still has more falloff, but if you're fighting in fallofff with void, you're doing it wrong.
Daniel L'Siata
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#20 - 2011-10-28 13:36:47 UTC
Hybrid charges do need a look.

Don't assume it all lies with the guns CCP!
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