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Triple Omni Dominix AKA nerf Sentry Drones

First post
Author
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-08-06 12:45:34 UTC
"Happened before, will happen again"

Sentry Domis in the past were already used by some known guys at that time, many changes occurred since then to the point those were not viable anymore but since these new modules addition and Drone ship bonus changes they will quite soon enough replace major alliances fleets doctrines because defensive strategies are quite easy to set and because this setup is very very difficult to counter (Doom portal requires experienced players doing it and the numbers/logistics to achieve it)

All hail drone fleets camping and ganking everything and everyone.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2013-08-06 12:52:49 UTC
The Era of Total Gallente Domination has begun

I've been training for it since day 0

muahahaha


.

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-08-06 13:03:57 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
For the sakes of an open comparison - how long does the Domi take to lock the ares and how much ground can it cover in that lock time?

Also we should consider that, if tackle gets under the sentries, the Domi/$DRONE_BOAT loses nearly all their DPS in it's removal - other hulls have hobgobs as ancillary peelers for things like this at no compromise to main DPS.

Cards on the table I really dont have a dog in this fight, but we should look at all angles for balancing.

You can assign drones to avoid this.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#24 - 2013-08-06 13:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Dominix in its current form is over buffed along with every other gall battleship that one is obvious as day is.

One can effortlessly make domi work amazing.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#25 - 2013-08-06 13:15:08 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
You seriously want to nerf an entire weapon system because ONE hull kicks ass with it?

Seriously?


Edit: And at what range was this? I was under the impression that angular velocity was more use and burning sideways at long range was basically worthless.


"Burning sideways" is exactly how to maximise angular velocity. The "sideways" component of your movement is the angular velocity.

I did the math on it:

A stationary Dominix with Garde IIs, triple omni and triple drone damage mod doing 750 DPS

against

an orbiting Ares doing 4138 m/s with a signature of 78.8m.


At 90km will it get hit with 650 DPS (90% hit'n'miss chance).
At 50km it is 450 DPS (70% hit'n'miss chance).
At 30km it is 206 DPS (37% hit'n'miss chance).
At 20km it is 65 DPS (10% hit'n'miss chance).

So basically, if the Interceptor is not already on top of the Garde IIs and orbiting perfectly at maximum velocity will it get shot.


against three Domi' you CAN get in from 90km, i did it in practice a few times. But you have to be really ******* conservative with your approach angle and its quite hard to do.. I think i died more than half the time i tried it.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-08-06 13:17:25 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
For the sakes of an open comparison - how long does the Domi take to lock the ares and how much ground can it cover in that lock time?

Also we should consider that, if tackle gets under the sentries, the Domi/$DRONE_BOAT loses nearly all their DPS in it's removal - other hulls have hobgobs as ancillary peelers for things like this at no compromise to main DPS.

Cards on the table I really dont have a dog in this fight, but we should look at all angles for balancing.



Assuming no SeBo's active a normal sheidl MWD ceptor (100m sig) takes around 12 seconds to lock with a Domi, that is with Sig Analysis V. Considering that ceptor should running at least 4,800m/s without heat you are talking 56-58km.

Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-08-06 13:17:41 UTC
Roime wrote:
The Era of Total Gallente Domination has begun

I've been training for it since day 0

muahahaha





Same here and not complaining but since them trained for all races equally so doesn't matter which is the newt op thing, I'll be flying it anyway Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-08-06 13:19:29 UTC
I've been super happy with Gallente since blaster buff and DDAs, now I'm just enjoying the tears :D

.

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-08-06 13:20:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
"Happened before, will happen again"

Sentry Domis in the past were already used by some known guys at that time, many changes occurred since then to the point those were not viable anymore but since these new modules addition and Drone ship bonus changes they will quite soon enough replace major alliances fleets doctrines because defensive strategies are quite easy to set and because this setup is very very difficult to counter (Doom portal requires experienced players doing it and the numbers/logistics to achieve it)

All hail drone fleets camping and ganking everything and everyone.



Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.

In a small gang where everyone locks everyone annyway, you don't know when you are going to get hit, and in a fleet you STILL don't know when you are going to get hit, you just have to filter the overview looking for fast lockers with long range....otherwise you get hit with 500+ sentries all at once and there isn't time for armor reps to land between volleys.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#30 - 2013-08-06 13:30:46 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
"Happened before, will happen again"

Sentry Domis in the past were already used by some known guys at that time, many changes occurred since then to the point those were not viable anymore but since these new modules addition and Drone ship bonus changes they will quite soon enough replace major alliances fleets doctrines because defensive strategies are quite easy to set and because this setup is very very difficult to counter (Doom portal requires experienced players doing it and the numbers/logistics to achieve it)

All hail drone fleets camping and ganking everything and everyone.



Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.

In a small gang where everyone locks everyone annyway, you don't know when you are going to get hit, and in a fleet you STILL don't know when you are going to get hit, you just have to filter the overview looking for fast lockers with long range....otherwise you get hit with 500+ sentries all at once and there isn't time for armor reps to land between volleys.


Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

David Devant
CTRL-Q
#31 - 2013-08-06 13:38:07 UTC
Onictus wrote:



Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.



This must be the case really. Immune to ewar, perfect alpha, big ehp. And other sentry boats are really pretty decent as well lets not forget. What's really fun about this is that nobody realised that this was doable earlier. You think everything's been done in this game, and lo and behold an i-win button has been sat there for years.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#32 - 2013-08-06 13:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
David Devant wrote:
Onictus wrote:



Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.



This must be the case really. Immune to ewar, perfect alpha, big ehp. And other sentry boats are really pretty decent as well lets not forget. What's really fun about this is that nobody realised that this was doable earlier. You think everything's been done in this game, and lo and behold an i-win button has been sat there for years.


Maybe it is time for your self to take history lesions because before drone dmg amp domi would do anemic 450 sentry dmg.

And now it does 800 multiply that with 10 ppl add sick tracking and start notice the difference and holes in your theory.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-08-06 13:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.


If you can tank the sentries who cares how the track?

Pro-Tip you thing that is bad, put bouncers and wardens in and see what they actually do.

David Devant wrote:
Onictus wrote:



Its not the drones, or even the Domi, its the assist mechanic.



This must be the case really. Immune to ewar, perfect alpha, big ehp. And other sentry boats are really pretty decent as well lets not forget. What's really fun about this is that nobody realised that this was doable earlier. You think everything's been done in this game, and lo and behold an i-win button has been sat there for years.


Not really, PL used Ishtars against us in -A- during XIX's eviction, likewise when CFC was booting NC. out of Tribute, BL used sentry ishtars against a CFC a couple times.

Panic geddons were built with the idea of dropping 5 sentries as well, it wasn't worth it to the point that you were using link augmentors or omnis, but they had a full rack of sentries onboard.

Its not a new idea, its just a LOT more effective.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#34 - 2013-08-06 13:59:30 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.


If you can tank the sentries who cares how the track?

Pro-Tip you thing that is bad, put bouncers and wardens in and see what they actually do.


In that case i am all for giving all guns 90k optimals and superior tracking because it don't rly matter right?

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-08-06 14:02:48 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


Yeah it have nothing to do with 90km opti gardes with tracking pwning every large(short range) gun out there.


If you can tank the sentries who cares how the track?

Pro-Tip you thing that is bad, put bouncers and wardens in and see what they actually do.


In that case i am all for giving all guns 90k optimals and superior tracking because it don't rly matter right?


Correct it really doesn't.

Of yo know they are bringing 10 domi's, bring smartbombs.

I've spent the last three months nuking sentry fleet after sentry fleet.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#36 - 2013-08-06 14:10:44 UTC
well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-08-06 14:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is.



No really park a few geddons with smartbombs on top of the sentry cloud, geddon has a better tank AND drones, AND neuts, and smartbombs. If you have a couple smartbomb BSs in a domi herd, they are effectively neutered, they drop drones...pop, they don't drop drones, they have no DPS.

The best they can do is annoy you with target breakers.....which your drones ignore I may add.

Not to mention there is this nifty thing called a MJD, it says "**** you and the slow battleship approach."


For reference we just won a war against guys that were using ALL drone doctrines, up to and including slowcats, you think domi's are bad? Go after 150 carriers dropping at least 9 a sentries a pop and spider tanking with capital reps.

I have.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#38 - 2013-08-06 14:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Onictus wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is.



No really park a few geddons with smartbombs on top of the sentry cloud, geddon has a better tank AND drones, AND neuts, and smartbombs. If you have a couple smartbomb BSs in a domi herd, they are effectively neutered, they drop drones...pop, they don't drop drones, they have no DPS.

The best they can do is annoy you with target breakers.....which your drones ignore I may add.

Not to mention there is this nifty thing called a MJD, it says "**** you and the slow battleship approach."


For reference we just won a war against guys that were using ALL drone doctrines, up to and including slowcats, you think domi's are bad? Go after 150 carriers dropping at least 9 a sentries a pop and spider tanking with capital reps.

I have.


That is all great and situational and i am not here to discuss that with you..point is domi is bargain for a buck it perform that well you can see it in every aspect of eve to the point that whole meta game is changing.

Dominated tourny go to ship for pve numerous usage in pvp for literally no effort nor trade ins.

edit

I am not saying it doesn't have counter mechanic i am saying it is too easy and usable on everything.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-08-06 14:27:06 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
well they can always be stupid and allow you get close but ppl being stupid isn't what going on here domi being OP is.



No really park a few geddons with smartbombs on top of the sentry cloud, geddon has a better tank AND drones, AND neuts, and smartbombs. If you have a couple smartbomb BSs in a domi herd, they are effectively neutered, they drop drones...pop, they don't drop drones, they have no DPS.

The best they can do is annoy you with target breakers.....which your drones ignore I may add.

Not to mention there is this nifty thing called a MJD, it says "**** you and the slow battleship approach."


For reference we just won a war against guys that were using ALL drone doctrines, up to and including slowcats, you think domi's are bad? Go after 150 carriers dropping at least 9 a sentries a pop and spider tanking with capital reps.

I have.


That is all great and situational and i am not here to discuss that with you..point is domi is bargain for a buck it perform that well you can see it in every aspect of eve to the point that whole meta game is changing.

Dominated tourny go to ship for pve numerous usage in pvp for literally no effort nor trade ins.

edit

I am not saying it doesn't have counter mechanic i am saying it is too easy and usable on everything.


The tounement is not Traquility. Like I said, I've spent the last three month busting up sentry fleets.
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
#40 - 2013-08-06 14:54:49 UTC
Actually I believe this anti-frig sentry option only applies to the ships with Drone Tracking bonuses. I tell you now my Vindi's Curators can't hit a frig.