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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

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First post
EI Digin
#1 - 2013-08-05 18:39:50 UTC
A long time ago CCP Greyscale another CCP employees asked for player input on how to properly solve the 0.0 problem. I've been following 0.0 politics and warfare for the last few years and have been through good times and bad, and hope to have a solution to the many problems that 0.0 grunts like myself have.

I present to you: EVE ONLINE: Revolution, the Winter 2013 expansion.
The empires are losing their grasp on power.


  • Logistics work is a huge barrier to entry for many groups. Self-inflicted pain and burnout shouldn't be the reason why you don't want to hold more space.
  • Little benefit for grunts, most are better off earning isk in highsec
  • The best way to get a fight with another player in sov nullsec is to go AFK, and there is little an entity can do to punish people who hide behind grinding
  • Lots of grinding, even after you vanquish your enemy. Forcing your enemy into a month-long time-grind is not good game design.
  • Few ways to upgrade your space, there is little variation between different types of space
  • Supercaps and Titans are POS ornaments. People need encouragement to do stupid things.


  • Remove barriers to entry that don't involve shooting bad guys who can shoot back: logistics work, diplomacy work and IT work.
  • - Take people off of "suicide watch", it's supposed to be a game, not a second job.
  • Tighten the choke points. There is too much stuff for too little people and it takes too long to deal with.
  • Introduce areas of conflict to destabilize existing soverign entities. (all 4 of them)
  • Give people from different playstyles something to do and ways to contribute to their group.


New sovereignty system
The POS-based sov system was horrible. Dominion was a little bit better, but still pretty bad. We can learn from the horrors of these two systems as well as the successes that Faction Warfare has brought us.

Anomaly rebalance
Anomalies are the key source of income for many 0.0 players. Group play is pretty much non-existant. We can use the currently successful group Incursion sites as inspiration for the rebalancing of anomalies.

IHUB and system reward overhaul
The Great Whiteboard of 2011 had a great amount of things to change and there is one item that came up a lot and is very much missing from the game. Meaningful upgradability of space.

NPC 0.0 overhaul
0.0 is a great place to have fun doing small gang warfare or for running missions. But why can't we make it a proving ground for entities that might want to hold sov some day?

Standings groups
Diplomacy is a very important skill that players must learn in order to succeed in this game. Unfortunately, getting a large group of players to do something at the same time has been proven to be pretty difficult.

Moon iteration
Odyssey has been a great expansion for fixing moon mining. However, there are a very large amount of money moons and losing a couple doesn't pack the same punch as it used to. We also need to get all of our logistics crews off of suicide watch, because no one wants to manage hundreds of POS.

Tax overhaul
Alliances have one major form of income: Moon mining. Unfortunately for those who don't have access to scores of money moons, they're stuck with trying to capitalize on income generated by their members. Fees should be paid for by the people who use the services provided by the alliance, let's facilitate this and make it easier for alliances dependent on taxes and fees for income.

Service module overhaul
Station services have always been a interesting target when there's nothing else to fight. Unfortunately, whenever someone starts shooting them, they get bored after about 5 minutes of practically zero progress. Small gangs need to be able to punish large entities that choose not to fight back, let's give them something to do.

Capital ship rebalancing
Capital ships are very interesting ships and play very important roles, but in the current meta they have a rather limited role and aren't usually deployed unless a victory can be guaranteed.
EI Digin
#2 - 2013-08-05 18:40:09 UTC
Old Sov System - Flowchart
New Sov System - Flowchart
New Sov System - System Types

  • Remove sov bills, only cost is for the TCU.
  • Constellation wide rather than system wide.
  • System owner chooses one system as a Capital system, two systems as Inner systems, rest are Outer systems.
  • Attacker puts up SBUs in more than half of the systems, takes 3 hours to online then puts constellation into reinforced.
  • Owner chooses time that constellation comes out of reinforce.
  • Second and third timer progressively shift towards attacker’s timer.
  • Attacker and defender must take FW-style 15 minute buttons littered throughout the series of systems that are under attack.
  • - Buttons are at planets to allow DUST mercs to interact.
    - Maximum of 3 buttons at a time, First stage has 10 buttons, second stage 5, last stage 1.
    - Each button gives influence meter, if attacker gets over 50% of buttons they will win the timer.
    - Defender gets base influence gain, after 2 hours passive regen will render the defender victorious. Attacker can stop passive regen by winning a button.
  • If the attacker wins, they move on to the next set of systems and systems fought for become uncontested. Stations are flippable. IHUB destroyable after and bonuses lost after 2nd timer.
  • Tidi percentage is synced (even if not necessary) throughout the constellation to prevent metagaming.
  • When timer is won, current TCU goes offline. First to online TCU (3 hour timer) gets constellation.


  • Defender has some advantage, but if they lose fights they lose the advantage.
  • Large fleets are not required to take or defend SOV, makes it easier for small entities to contest.
  • Early timers are spread out over multiple systems, leading up to a last stand.
  • Multiple buttons require multiple fleets working in tandem, allows for a more diverse fleet and opportunities for small gangs to have something productive to do in a sov war. More FCing opportunities.
  • Against a defeated defender, only a few people are required to show up to contest sov.
  • Less grinding overall, ehp grind replaced with time grind.


  • Large EHP grind means that there is a large barrier to entry for smaller groups. No one likes grinding a constellation down in stealth bombers.
  • Defender has all of the advantage, they only have to show up once to a fight whereas the attacker has to spend hundreds if not thousands of man hours just to lose one fight. Losing timers on purpose is a strategic move with little consequence.
  • If you defeat your enemy and they don't show up anymore, you earn the special privilege of grinding through all of their space.
  • Single objective timers result in victory going to those with large monolithic fleets with little fleet diversity. Single objectives also result in a ton of lag concentrated into one single objective.
  • Sov is very stable, if you are losing a war you usually have more than enough time to evac all of your assets from the entire region. Losing fights should be harmful, and they should harbor some hate towards their attacker because they cause real damage to everyone.
EI Digin
#3 - 2013-08-05 18:40:23 UTC
Anomaly Types

  • Make high-level anomalies more difficult, require gangs of 3/5/10/20/40 to complete.
  • - PVE Anomalies should provide content for small gangs, which provides content for other small gangs.
    - Allows players to form premade defense fleets.
    - Small gangs mean you are less afraid of one guy AFK cloaking in your system.
    - Playing with other people is more fun to some people than playing by yourself.
  • Less anomalies per system, maximum of 3 to 5.
  • - Easier to find gangs in system.
  • Give capital/supercapital/titans a higher change to escalate anomalies, perhaps spawn more npcs like wormholes
  • - Provides something for capital pilots to do, reasons to do dumb things.
    - Capitals in anomalies will allow players to complete sites with less people/faster, but at increased risk.
  • Escalations also require more people to complete, similar isk reward, perhaps require capitals/supers/titans to complete.
  • Make anomalies have a chance to spawn npc carriers if you bring a supercarrier into an anomaly, etc.
  • If you bring too many people to anomaly, you get less reward (incursion style).
  • Low end anomalies (3/5 man sites) also spawn in lowsec.


  • Soloable anomalies promote selfish play, if you die ratting no one cares, everyone's out to defend themselves.
  • Supers and titans are worthless.
  • Little opportunity for people to PVE in groups, unless you are nomadic and run incursions in lowsec.
  • AFK Cloaking is a result of solo players rightfully not engaging and running away at the first sign of enemy solo targets, because PVE fits are radically different and not viable in PVP. It is also a result of solo PVPers not having any other real opportunity to get a fight. Players have to pretend to not be at their keyboards in order or get lucky with NPC warp scramblers or be up against stupid people to get a chance of getting a fight. This entire dynamic is poor game design, and attempting to solve it by fixing the symptom rather than the disease helps no one.
EI Digin
#4 - 2013-08-05 18:41:09 UTC
IHUB Overhaul - System Types

  • Reduce IHUB size
  • - Carriable in a Rorqual or a JF. Makes things easier for smaller groups. You shouldnt need to have a titan in order to set up ihubs, because let's face it, no one actually wants to do a freighter op.

  • Certain constellations have upgradable bonuses for different styles of gameplay.
  • High levelled constellations will give slight bonuses to adjacent constellations.
  • 5 different constellation types, generated at random
  • Example:
    PIRATE HUB: (Ratting constellation)
    Kill 1000/5000/10000/50000/100000 NPCs and recieve 1/3/5/10/15% extra bounty.
    Run 500/1500/5000/25000/100000 sites and rats will have 1/2/3/5/8% less resist.

    DATACENTER: (Hacking/Exploration constellation)
    Complete 100/500/1000/5000/10000 hacking sites and recieve 5/7/10/15/25 innate hacking strength.
    Obtain 100/500/1000/5000/10000 Scrap cans and recieve 1/3/5/10/15% extra loot.

    INDUSTRY: (industry buffs)
    Build 1 million m3/5 million/10 million/25 million/50 million worth of goods and your manufacturing will require 1/3/5/10/15% less materials
    Set up 5/15/50/100/500 POS and use 1/3/5/10/15% less POS fuel.

    MINING: (mining buffs)
    Mine 1 million m3/5 million/10 million/25 million/50 million worth of ore and recieve 1/3/5/10/15% more ore.
    Complete 100/500/1000/5000/10000 mining sites and recieve 5/7/10/15/25% more hitpoints on mining barges.

    CAPITAL: (alliance/market buffs)
    If 30 different corporations have offices in a station, obtain the ability to use cynogens/cynojammers, no matter how long you hold your system for.
    Sell 1 billion/5 billion/15 billion/50 billion/400 billion isk worth of goods transfered on the market, recieve an additional 1/3/5/10/15% referral fee from the broker. (isk faucet)

  • A constellation that has an average of -0.1 sov, generate 5 possible bonuses at random (out of a possible 10) and when the criteria for each are met, the sovholder will recieve the specified bonus.
  • A constellation that has an average of -0.8 or -0.9 will have a possibility of having every bonus.
  • IHubs will still have date timers for things like Jump Bridges or Cyno Generators/jammers.


  • Gives groups who only have a few constellations an incentive for conflict.
  • Pseudo achievement system provides fufilling rewards and a reason for people to play.


  • IHUBs are static and boring. The most important part of the IHUB is to install the module that gives you more anomaly spawns, along with the modules that let you install jump bridges, csaas, cyno gens/jammers, etc.
  • There is no difference between space, other than the type of rats that spawn and the types of ore you get. It doesn't matter what system you live in, as long as you live in a system in nullsec.
EI Digin
#5 - 2013-08-05 18:41:30 UTC

  • You have to "prove yourself" to the pirates that own the space.
  • Faction-warfare style, except instead of milita just your alliance. Claim constellations.
  • Gain LP for killing any other player (more LP depending on ship) while in region, or for completing missions.
  • LP used for upgrading to different tiers with different benefits, faction rewards.
  • LPs buy you faction TCU BPCs.
  • Faction TCU (anchorable at planets for DUST interaction) goes through single 48h reinforce cycle, is used for upgrading constellation to different tiers with LP.
  • The alliance with the most amount of constellations in the region will not be shot by that faction's NPCs.


  • Assists small entities in interrupting the isk-generation activities of larger entities (unless shot at first).
  • Gives small groups a place to grow and have fun. Step up from FW.


  • NPC 0.0 is a good place to fight, but there's nothing in particular to fight for, other than Spaceship Honour and perhaps some moons.
  • NPC 0.0 is a good starting area for alliances, lets make it better.



  • Allow players to create groups and invite alliances, corporations, individual players to join.
  • The leader (or leaders) of the group is able to set standings on behalf of the group.
  • Groups are able to set standings to other groups.
  • Much more informal and less "responsibility" than starting an alliance.
  • Make standings groups visible to general public, make it easier for players who don't follow politics to understand what's going on.
  • Allow for standings changes to be "timed" or queued, ie Merc Alliance A blues Alliance B for 3 hours during an important operation.


  • Players who aren't into space politics have a great difficulty recognizing what is going on in 0.0.
  • If you have a lot of friends, getting a hold of everyone to perform standings changes can be a hassle.



  • Reduce the amount of money moons by a factor of 5-10x, but have the moons produce 5-10x more minerals.
  • - Reduces the amount of work needed by logistics teams to run an alliance. Managing 8 moons is a lot less work than managing 80 of them.
    - Losses of moons hurts more, would be a serious blow to an alliance.
    - May require making moon minerals take up less space in cargo.
    - More choke points for conflict, alliances may want to settle down in areas where they hold moons.
  • Remove moon probes, moon intelligence is instant.


  • Handling moons is one of the big pressure points alliance logistics teams have. If you hold a lot of moons, you need a big organization to deal with it.
  • Losing a moon or two isn't a big deal for many alliances.
  • Moon probing is not fun.
EI Digin
#6 - 2013-08-05 18:42:08 UTC

  • Pilots must pay taxes to the sovholding corporation, added onto their corp's tax rate.
  • - Includes all taxes, including brokerage fees.
    - These fees can add up to a lot of money, although it removes a sink.
    - Reduces the complexity in renting agreements, going NRDS, etc.
  • Taxes for NPC systems will go to NPC sovholder


  • Removes barrier to entry for renting in general, it makes citizen alliances/renting agreements easier to set up because earned income goes directly to the sovholder. All you need is blue standings, no hounding people for money.
  • Owning space needs to have value. If space doesn't have value, it gets unused and you end up roaming 40 jumps to see a tengu in a pos.
  • Few instances where there are NRDS-like entities who survive off of the people who live in their space.



  • All station services changed to 5 million EHP, takes approximately 10-15 minutes to take out with a small gang.

IHUB Services (10m ehp)

  • Tax Service
  • - Disabling the service results in all taxes generated from the constellation being pooled into the IHUB instead of given to the sovholder.
    - Small gangs are able to hack the broken IHUB module (with the new hacking minigame) and recieve the tax pool for the constellation.
  • Ratting/Mining Service
  • - Disabling this service results in NPCs gaining a boost to resistances.
  • Industry service
  • - Disabling this service results in industry jobs in the constellation pausing. Including CSAAs.
  • Infrastructure service
  • - Disabling this service results in the offlining of all cyno generator/jammers/jump bridges.


  • Service modules are hardly ever shot, they have too much EHP.
  • Small gangs need a way to punish sovholding entities that hide.
  • Small entities have a tough time getting income through PVP, hitting the tax service provides a good way for income while at the same time denying a larger entity.
  • Small entities have an opportunity to use supercaps.



  • Swap dread mineral requirements with carrier mineral requirements (the Elo Knight solution).
  • - Make dreads more disposable, meaning more escalations and usage of supers/titans.
    - Triage and slowcat support (which arguably fill a more important role) become more expensive.
    - Accessible dreads make things like POS shots easier.
  • CCP Fozzie, do your magic!


  • Carriers are arguably more useful than dreads. You only need a few triage carriers to support a fleet, but you need quite a few dreads to kill stuff.
  • There aren't nearly enough capital escalations, which lead to few supercapital escalations.
  • Dreads are the best ship for escalations, they do a lot of damage and can't sustain themselves indefinitely when under fire.

EI Digin
#7 - 2013-08-05 18:42:22 UTC
Since I am only an armchair game designer, I have tried to avoid including specific numbers and tried to make broad strokes. It's CCP's job to use statistics they have generated to decide what the numbers should be, implement these ideas, and iterate on them over the years.

This expansion touches a lot of pressure points and game mechanics that everyone hates but has no idea how to solve. If you have a solution or think that something could be changed just a bit to make things better, feel free to post and tell us how you would fix it.

Let's not turn this into the typical eve-o ideological war between highsec and nullsec, or between large coalitions and small gangs, because that's not what this expansion is all about. It's about improving the 0.0 experience for everyone!

EI Digin
#8 - 2013-08-05 18:42:34 UTC
TL;DR: If you sincerely care about the future of 0.0, read the entire thing!

Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts
#9 - 2013-08-05 18:43:28 UTC
#10 - 2013-08-05 18:44:00 UTC
I approve
Walter Stine
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-08-05 18:44:10 UTC
Mirel Dystoph
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-08-05 18:45:18 UTC

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Agustus palpius
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2013-08-05 18:46:36 UTC
Some good ideas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-08-05 18:46:46 UTC
op is literally autistic

but right on a lot of things here
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad
Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
#15 - 2013-08-05 18:47:30 UTC
What a story, Mark.


Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-08-05 18:47:37 UTC
el digin 4 csm

the keres we need #zulu
Jantunen the Infernal
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-08-05 18:48:25 UTC
ids bretty gud
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-08-05 18:48:40 UTC
Katie Corb
Corb's Emporium of Catgirls and Cynosural Fields
#19 - 2013-08-05 18:49:56 UTC


Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-08-05 18:52:07 UTC

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