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Dominix versus SNI... Shocked by first day results.

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Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-08-03 10:07:47 UTC
The range on the SNI is more than enough. I only target out to somewhere around 120km anyway. The Dominix is worse off. Even with the sensor booster, it only has 114 or something like that. It's Wardens reach out to 150 in optimal alone, so I usually use the Tengu to point the drones after an MJD. Nothing wrong with the SNI, that wasnt my meaning here. I was just shocked that I ended up tanking significantly better with my Dominix, and being that I had plans to move onto a Rattlesnake, I am starting to rethink my plan. I am already not a huge fan of the missile flight delay.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-08-03 17:59:34 UTC
Mater Otomeya wrote:
The range on the SNI is more than enough. I only target out to somewhere around 120km anyway. The Dominix is worse off. Even with the sensor booster, it only has 114 or something like that. It's Wardens reach out to 150 in optimal alone, so I usually use the Tengu to point the drones after an MJD. Nothing wrong with the SNI, that wasnt my meaning here. I was just shocked that I ended up tanking significantly better with my Dominix, and being that I had plans to move onto a Rattlesnake, I am starting to rethink my plan. I am already not a huge fan of the missile flight delay.

Your navy scorp is effed up because of the smaller shield booster and two target painters.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-08-03 18:08:45 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:

Your navy scorp is effed up because of the smaller shield booster and two target painters.


Can you please elaborate? I am using a large shield booster... The x-large eats WAY more cap, and doesnt rep all that much more. And the second TP is for staggering/smaller targets.
Kery Nysell
#24 - 2013-08-03 19:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kery Nysell
Mater Otomeya wrote:
Caleidascope wrote:

Your navy scorp is effed up because of the smaller shield booster and two target painters.


Can you please elaborate? I am using a large shield booster... The x-large eats WAY more cap, and doesnt rep all that much more. And the second TP is for staggering/smaller targets.


Erm ... XL-boosters eat double the cap, for double the rep ... roughly, the cap/shield points ratio is the same, but the XL burst way more.

You don't need two Target Painters on an SNI ... you don't even need one, but it's nice to have in combination with 2 Rigors and 1 Flare rigs + Precision Cruises for the Elite Frigates in missions ... for the "normal" frigates, Light Drones are enough.

Finally, the bonus pocket of the Angel Extravaganza L4 is special, because on top of the usual EXP+KIN from the Angels, you'll take some THERM damage from the BSes, AND some EM damage mixed in ...

For that mission, the mid slots of my SNI are like this :

100MN T2 AB
T2 Target Painter
T2 EXPL hardener
T2 KIN hardener
2x T2 INVULN hardeners
T2 Shield Boost Amp
T2 XL Shield Booster

I target the Saint first, because he paints like a madman, then the other BSes (except the Nephilim, trigger), then the rest, and the trigger last.

I let my shield drop to 33~35% before starting the XL Booster, and keep it active until I'm back to 70% shields OR down to 30% capacitor ... then shut off, let the cap regen, wash-rinse-repeat.

I've had to warp out only twice, because I killed the trigger too fast, and I'm doing my L4 missionning solo ..

EDIT :

What you really need is Tech 2 Cruise missiles, the Furies make a ton of difference in your killing speed, and the Precisions eat the frigates way faster than Standard/Cal Navy cruises ... and you even have Tech 2 rigs in there, mine are "only" Tech 1 and I have better results than you ...

...
Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-08-03 19:50:21 UTC
Kery Nysell wrote:


Erm ... XL-boosters eat double the cap, for double the rep ... roughly, the cap/shield points ratio is the same, but the XL burst way more.

You don't need two Target Painters on an SNI ... you don't even need one, but it's nice to have in combination with 2 Rigors and 1 Flare rigs + Precision Cruises for the Elite Frigates in missions ... for the "normal" frigates, Light Drones are enough.

Finally, the bonus pocket of the Angel Extravaganza L4 is special, because on top of the usual EXP+KIN from the Angels, you'll take some THERM damage from the BSes, AND some EM damage mixed in ...

For that mission, the mid slots of my SNI are like this :

100MN T2 AB
T2 Target Painter
T2 EXPL hardener
T2 KIN hardener
2x T2 INVULN hardeners
T2 Shield Boost Amp
T2 XL Shield Booster

I target the Saint first, because he paints like a madman, then the other BSes (except the Nephilim, trigger), then the rest, and the trigger last.

I let my shield drop to 33~35% before starting the XL Booster, and keep it active until I'm back to 70% shields OR down to 30% capacitor ... then shut off, let the cap regen, wash-rinse-repeat.

I've had to warp out only twice, because I killed the trigger too fast, and I'm doing my L4 missionning solo ..


Yes, double cap, for double rep. The large will spend more time in the optimal shield and cap regen areas compared to a larger burst. The ratio on paper is the same, but in an endurance fight, if you manage the peaks well, you end up with more cap. Faster rep would help me if my tank couldnt keep up. That wasnt the problem. The problem was running out of cap, which the x-large would not help with at all.

Precision cruises might be a good idea, but as I stated, and showed in my fit, I am in T1 launchers, without the ability to use those cruise missiles. Light drones do the work just fine, but not always at the speed I need, and I dont have that long of a control range either. The second TP makes it so that I can always have a TP on my target, and double up if I need to do so.

I was unaware of the EM damage that would be incoming, that I openly admit. But the therm damage is mostly a non issue, since, as I said, I drop the cruise towers first. Odds are that the EM hole was doing me few favors in the mission, and was likely the oversight that I was looking for.
Kery Nysell
#26 - 2013-08-03 20:01:49 UTC
Angel Extravaganza bonus room is one of the hardest "rooms" in level 4 missions, you really need a top-notch fit with very good skills to do it without problems ...

I really struggled with it while training my Cruise Missile skill up to 5, and then the Messiah came back and told me "Use the Furies Kery !", and I've seen a 50% diminution in my kill times Blink

BTW, a lot of people say that a perma-run shield booster is good, but after years of experience, it really isn't.

The great strength of shield tanks is the ability to rep huge amounts of shields quickly ...

Maybe try a second, Ancillary, Shield Booster instead of the Shield Boost Amp with lots of cap charges for emergency boosting ?

...
Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-08-03 20:28:37 UTC
I realize how difficult the room is, and what it is known for, but that was also a bit of my point. My alt, with so-so armor skills, and not a very well rounded character is in a Dominix, doing the room fine with no warpouts. It is using fewer slots for tanking as well. The SNI, with a bonus for tank, well known for its tank, then comes in with a pilot that has perfect shield skills, and ends up getting hammered and forced to warp several times, eventually having the Dominix come in and sweep the place. It just seemed fairly incredible. However, as someone mentioned, the issue is likely the EM hole, which the Dominix didnt have, as well as the fact that I MJDed with the Dominix. Next time I get the mission, I will go with an MJD, and see how things work out then. However, as it stands, I think that I am going to pass on the Rattlesnake (my eventual goal) and instead simply stick with the Tengu, and bring in a CNR, and just dual box the end of this mission when it comes up.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-08-03 21:22:36 UTC
Mater Otomeya wrote:
I realize how difficult the room is, and what it is known for, but that was also a bit of my point. My alt, with so-so armor skills, and not a very well rounded character is in a Dominix, doing the room fine with no warpouts. It is using fewer slots for tanking as well. The SNI, with a bonus for tank, well known for its tank, then comes in with a pilot that has perfect shield skills, and ends up getting hammered and forced to warp several times, eventually having the Dominix come in and sweep the place. It just seemed fairly incredible. However, as someone mentioned, the issue is likely the EM hole, which the Dominix didnt have, as well as the fact that I MJDed with the Dominix. Next time I get the mission, I will go with an MJD, and see how things work out then. However, as it stands, I think that I am going to pass on the Rattlesnake (my eventual goal) and instead simply stick with the Tengu, and bring in a CNR, and just dual box the end of this mission when it comes up.

Armor natural high resistance is EM and Thermal.
Shield resistance holes are EM and Thermal.
Your armor tank held up better than your shield tank.
What does it tell you about the types of the damage you were receiving?

If I were you, I would put two em and two thermal resists on your shield tank for the bonus room. Can you guess why?
(and drop the tp, they are useless on a sniper fit)
(i fly lmjd fits so i don't waste my time with ab, 100km every 3 minutes as needed.)

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Ying Taishu
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
#29 - 2013-08-04 11:24:06 UTC
The domi is a good ship now (thank god), but when I did that room last time (before cruise buff) I did it in my t2 fit raven. Bit sketchy, used cap booster and constantly moving away but did it so it's not THAT difficult.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#30 - 2013-08-05 03:58:56 UTC
well i was under impression that something in there doing really huge thermal dmg that and fact that 100k away you don't take any dmg helped domi.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#31 - 2013-08-05 08:47:00 UTC
Mater Otomeya wrote:

TL;DR: Mediocre skilled Dominix pilot easily outtanks well skilled SNI pilot. Normal?


Isn't it more of a case of "mediocre skilled Domi pilot puts the Domi where it has far less incoming damage to tank, but leaves the SNI right in the shitstorm"?

Yes, MJD the SNI; cruise work just as well at range as they do point blank.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-08-05 08:56:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Mater Otomeya wrote:

TL;DR: Mediocre skilled Dominix pilot easily outtanks well skilled SNI pilot. Normal?


Isn't it more of a case of "mediocre skilled Domi pilot puts the Domi where it has far less incoming damage to tank, but leaves the SNI right in the shitstorm"?

Yes, MJD the SNI; cruise work just as well at range as they do point blank.


This. MJD makes tanking the bonus room trivial compared to the nightmare it can be up close and personal.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-08-05 09:25:32 UTC
Mater Otomeya wrote:
So I get into the bonus room and... Wow. Things went downhill quickly. I did as I always do, and dropped the cruise towers first, and then started on the sentries. I had to warp out after just 4 towers. This was fairly shocking, as my Tengu usually has to warp out on this room as well, but often manages a bit better, and I thought that the "legendary" tank on the SNI would hold better, especially with 91% exp, and 83% kin...




A simple correctly T2 fitted HAMgu chews through bonus room with little (B-Type SB) dmg showing to none at all (A-type SB) and what I can call little dmg taken is about 60% max shields taken off which is nothing.

My guess is either you don't have strong Tengu skills or you did piloting/targeting mistakes. The SNI can also chew through this bonus room like butter with Cruise missiles provided you have perfect missile support skills, lvl4 spec use either T1 or Faction cruise missiles and a TP. Of course pimp tank helps (xl-SB) but doable with T2 tank.
Domi at first sentry drop with the number of light batteries and frigates you should loose some but also doable in.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Mater Otomeya
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-08-05 15:04:08 UTC
I fly a heavy missile Tengu, and the skills are good. (although not perfect) I take the bulk of the damage from the sentry guns, which dont seem to miss me at close or long range. Either way, I did it in the SNI yesterday with fewer problems by using an MJD and switching out a TP for an adaptive invuln.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#35 - 2013-08-05 15:31:54 UTC
What's your Scorp fit? even a T2 fit Drake can do bonus room on a fairly good skilled character aslong as you fit an AB so should be down to your scorp fit/skill setup rather than the ship itself.
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