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Kaalakiota Okusaika in the news

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-08-10 01:23:50 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
CEP never asked citizens

But the opinion of the citizens doesn't matter! As you're so fond of reminding us, the State isn't a democracy.

Besides, even if it was, public opinion is very stronglyagainst Heth.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#102 - 2013-08-10 02:05:20 UTC
Desiderya wrote:
A martyr's death is rarely a waste.
Wisdom is in your words, Scherezad-haani.


As I climbed from my pod that day, with the blood of seven hundred of my Kirjuun on my hands my overwhelming impression was one of having FAILED. Failed to keep her alive. Failed to protect Home. Failed the State in the solemnest duty given me.

What none of us knew was that we would fail her again, only days later, when the man we helped put into power, whose throne we kept propped up, would kill her for the final time.

Perhaps one day, if I'm given enough of them, I'll look back on that time with something other than shame, but not today. No matter how fine Scherezad-haani's words are.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-08-10 04:19:04 UTC
If nothing else, Diana Kim, Heth's inability to hold onto power is evidence of his incompetence to possess it.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#104 - 2013-08-10 05:53:12 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Desiderya wrote:
A martyr's death is rarely a waste.
Wisdom is in your words, Scherezad-haani.


As I climbed from my pod that day, with the blood of seven hundred of my Kirjuun on my hands my overwhelming impression was one of having FAILED. Failed to keep her alive. Failed to protect Home. Failed the State in the solemnest duty given me.

What none of us knew was that we would fail her again, only days later, when the man we helped put into power, whose throne we kept propped up, would kill her for the final time.

Perhaps one day, if I'm given enough of them, I'll look back on that time with something other than shame, but not today. No matter how fine Scherezad-haani's words are.

Pieter,

The shame of loss may drown all other things
But still, submerged, the chime of truth will ring.
You did what you had to, and what you could. I don't blame you for how you feel, and hope it eases soon.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-08-10 06:48:41 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
If nothing else, Diana Kim, Heth's inability to hold onto power is evidence of his incompetence to possess it.


From the way I viewed things, he had over extended his reach and was outside his comfort zone. Heth in my opinion would have probably made a good local labor leader or supervisor at a Caldari Steel factory since this is what he understood best.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-08-10 08:17:54 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
If nothing else, Diana Kim, Heth's inability to hold onto power is evidence of his incompetence to possess it.


From the way I viewed things, he had over extended his reach and was outside his comfort zone. Heth in my opinion would have probably made a good local labor leader or supervisor at a Caldari Steel factory since this is what he understood best.

And in my opinion you would have probably made a good local janitor or a hull cleaner, since this is the only thing that you, gallenteans, can do professionally. Of course, after a couple of years of training.

Obviously, judgement of a gallentean about assignment of a Caldari personnel to a certain position shouldn't be taken into account, since gallenteans can't comprehend principles of meritocracy.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#107 - 2013-08-10 09:22:12 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Popular opinion is insignificant. This is not a freaking democracy. Information is available on a need to know basis.


I could break down your reply in full, but frankly, I only need a few lines.

No, it's not a democracy. Popular opinion is not a requirement. You're absolutely correct. You also totally failed to answer the question.

Heth lied. Don't give me 'need to know' bullshit - how does the fate of a someone lauded as a hero across the State count as classified information? Never mind the populace, either. The CEP was not informed, and they, as the highest level of State government, pretty much do need to know everything.

Diana Kim wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
His own statements do not support your 'would not pass tribunal' assessment, I'll also point out.

This is not your lovely rotted Federation. The Tribunal does not regard public opinion, only facts and laws.


Good job avoiding my point again. By the magical art of removing the unimportant sentence, your reply suddenly doesn't make sense. If public opinion is so unimportant, why is Heth - by your argument - lying his head off to them in a weak and totally unsuccessful attempt to garner some goodwill? Why bother, when the Tribunal will exonerate him afterward? That'd make him look pretty silly, no?

Diana Kim wrote:

Caldari Navy only follows orders. Admiral Yanala was supporter of Heth-haan, the ISC are pro-gallentean and will put anything to public that will hurt the State.


Yanala denounced him and spat is his face at her tea ceremony, unless you're going to actively call Erinen's testimony manufactured falsehoods. Pretty serious accusation, that one.

As to the Navy... you are seriously suggesting that your impartial armed forces would take the orders of the CEP to oust the supreme leader of the State, the CEP's superior. Do you ever listen to yourself?

Your replies have actually managed to make Heth look even more incompetent. I'm impressed. You've repeatedly managed to imply weakness, stupidity and a total lack of foresight. Ignoring everything else, on that basis alone, I have to agree with Vikarion's point - he really didn't deserve to keep that position if he was going to be that pathetic.

Diana Kim wrote:
You will see one, if you meet me in person.


You know where to find me. Until you bother facing me in person, keep your silly threats to yourself. They're not big, and they're not clever - just a waste of data.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#108 - 2013-08-10 16:23:23 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
You will see one, if you meet me in person.


You know where to find me.


Um...

Diana Kim wrote:
This is not your lovely rotted Federation.


I'm really not so sure that she actually does.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#109 - 2013-08-10 16:58:15 UTC
Without delving too deeply into the threats, the mysticism, and all else that a discussion of Heth entails these days:

I actually thought the more important concern here was Kaalakiota's financial stability. While I doubt they're in any sort of dire peril, it seemed the more important and less resolved point of the two.

I suppose I was mistaken in that.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#110 - 2013-08-10 17:10:19 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Without delving too deeply into the threats, the mysticism, and all else that a discussion of Heth entails these days:

I actually thought the more important concern here was Kaalakiota's financial stability. While I doubt they're in any sort of dire peril, it seemed the more important and less resolved point of the two.

I suppose I was mistaken in that.


It's fair to comment that to those of us outside the State and unfamiliar with its labyrinthine politics and economics, the future of Kaalakiota is harder to discuss and consider.

That said, I'd agree with you. Regardless of what Kim would have us believe, Heth is no longer of any real relevance, and the economic future of KK is a more important question. I'm inclined to agree with Gesakaarin-haani's analysis, however, in that KK's infrastructure and foundations are too solid for it to be in danger of more than losing its undisputed primacy.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-08-11 05:09:27 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

No, it's not a democracy. Popular opinion is not a requirement. You're absolutely correct. You also totally failed to answer the question.

I have answered to most of your points. If you can't understand it, it is not my failure, but yours.
If I didn't reply to some of your points, then it is because you couldn't either ask direct question or prioritize them.
If you could stop barking for a bit and start making sense, maybe you will start receiving answers on points that you want to know...
However, something tells me, that you don't want to know anything, but rather looking for more material to bark about.

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

Heth lied. Don't give me 'need to know' bullshit - how does the fate of a someone lauded as a hero across the State count as classified information? Never mind the populace, either. The CEP was not informed, and they, as the highest level of State government, pretty much do need to know everything.

Oh, spirits... Can you really be this slow-witted? Heroes and high ranked officers are ideals for regular citizens. You have to keep morale up and citizens don't need to know if a high ranked officer violated direct order, went under tribunal and stuff like this. When they know that she died in the battle as a hero, it is way better if they know, that she drank the tea to save honor and avoid tribunal.

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

Good job avoiding my point again. By the magical art of removing the unimportant sentence, your reply suddenly doesn't make sense.

As I noted above, stop barking and try to formulate your point with words, so it would be clear for everyone, not just you. What was important to me, wasn't important to you? Then try to don't write what is not important. For example, barking is not important.

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

If public opinion is so unimportant, why is Heth - by your argument - lying his head off to them in a weak and totally unsuccessful attempt to garner some goodwill? Why bother, when the Tribunal will exonerate him afterward? That'd make him look pretty silly, no?

I answered this above, but I will repeat for a chance you would understand it somehow. It is about morale. You have to maintain high morale of the citizens, so their efficiency don't drop.

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

Your replies have actually managed to make Heth look even more incompetent. I'm impressed.

Only in your inefficient incompetent gallentean-infused brain.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-08-11 05:15:37 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Without delving too deeply into the threats, the mysticism, and all else that a discussion of Heth entails these days:

I actually thought the more important concern here was Kaalakiota's financial stability. While I doubt they're in any sort of dire peril, it seemed the more important and less resolved point of the two.

I suppose I was mistaken in that.

Priano-haani, if you will excuse me, but stability of the whole State is much important concern than just financial stability of one megacorporation.

To secure the State we should reinstate Tibus Heth, nationalize megacorporations and defeat the Federation.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#113 - 2013-08-11 05:42:47 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Without delving too deeply into the threats, the mysticism, and all else that a discussion of Heth entails these days:

I actually thought the more important concern here was Kaalakiota's financial stability. While I doubt they're in any sort of dire peril, it seemed the more important and less resolved point of the two.

I suppose I was mistaken in that.

Priano-haani, if you will excuse me, but stability of the whole State is much important concern than just financial stability of one megacorporation.

To secure the State we should reinstate Tibus Heth, nationalize megacorporations and defeat the Federation.


Secure? You mean destroy, surely?

Disband the CEP, the CBT. Nationalise the Mega Corporations. Reinstate Heth and the CPD.

How would we defeat the Federation? You've just destroyed the State!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#114 - 2013-08-11 06:03:42 UTC
Kim-haani, I would tend to agree with Pieter on this point. Was not our war of independence in defense of our corporate state? Would we not be losing the very identity we fought to protect?

Interestingly, though, I found a GalNet article on Gallente demographics recently that mentioned small populations of ethnic Caldari in the Federation -- basically, enclaves of Caldari who did not secede when the State evacuated Caldari Prime. The article noted that these Caldari tend to operate in a highly collective manner, with few corporatist tendencies. While the source wasn't robust, it was an interesting notion. Once I have some time away from operations in Syndicate, I may have to visit some of these enclaves.

I wonder if Ishukone has cultural missions on site already, in fact.

Time to do some research.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-08-11 07:16:56 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Secure? You mean destroy, surely?

Disband the CEP, the CBT. Nationalise the Mega Corporations. Reinstate Heth and the CPD.

How would we defeat the Federation? You've just destroyed the State!

Really? Have you eaten too much gallentean propaganda lately?
I mean not destroying the State.
But UNITING! With purpose of destroying external enemy.

The only party that benefits from the divided State is The Federation. They want us weak. They don't want us to unite, because it will mean their end.

So, which side are you on?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#116 - 2013-08-11 07:37:05 UTC
I'm a Citizen of Kaalakiota. I serve the State.

So, which side are you on?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#117 - 2013-08-11 07:53:49 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I'm a Citizen of Kaalakiota. I serve the State.

So, which side are you on?


Evidently not the one that would result in Heth being an unchallenged, sole dictator of the State, with the only other force being his personal army.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#118 - 2013-08-11 10:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
Diana Kim wrote:
Priano-haani, if you will excuse me, but stability of the whole State is much important concern than just financial stability of one megacorporation.

To secure the State we should reinstate Tibus Heth, nationalize megacorporations and defeat the Federation.


So, in other words, to beat the Federation, we have to become just like them, nationalizing our corporations (as Fouritain tried to do), federalizing all control into a central organization, and relying on a leader chosen by populist appeal.

You advocate becoming the Federation.

The State is the Megas. The State always has been the Megas. It was the Megas that stood up for us against the Gallente and Mannar, it was the Megas that evacuated our homeworld, and it was the Megas that gave us a new life and shielded us from our would be conquerors for one hundred years. You cannot be Caldari and advocate the dissolution of the Megas.

The State is not a unified whole, because power does not come from being a single, unified whole. Power comes from conflict, competition, where the weak perish and the strong survive. The State corporate system is this. Those who survive the struggle are the most fit to lead, those who can do the most with the least, those who most intelligently use resources, those are the ones who possess the merit to serve in the highest offices.

To simply seize power, to announce one's right to it, is foolishness. Power is something you are, not something you have, an idea Heth could not grasp. Heth fell because his opponents were smarter, more cunning, and, in the end, stronger, thus proving his unfitness to lead, and the right of the Megas to rule. And this should not be a surprise: they were and are the cream of the competitive crop.

All that Heth managed to do was to take Caldari Prime, and then lose it. The Megas made us the most militarily capable nation in New Eden, and achieved our independence against numerically, and, at first, a technologically superior foe. By their internal conflict they forged the weapons and tactics we possess and use. They managed this because the Caldari State understands what other do not: there is no true unity, there is no true peace, there is only the struggle, the fight, and the continual development of power. Physically, economically, militarily - only in conflict are these things improved.

To advocate the destruction of that system is to advocate the destruction of that which makes us unique, that which makes us great.
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-08-11 12:55:46 UTC
She does not understand what it is to be Caldari, and yet rants about it constantly.

As far as I'm concerned, she's an anti-citizen, and not worthy of the calories expended in discussing her.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#120 - 2013-08-11 13:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Vikarion wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Priano-haani, if you will excuse me, but stability of the whole State is much important concern than just financial stability of one megacorporation.

To secure the State we should reinstate Tibus Heth, nationalize megacorporations and defeat the Federation.


So, in other words, to beat the Federation, we have to become just like them, nationalizing our corporations (as Fouritain tried to do), federalizing all control into a central organization, and relying on a leader chosen by populist appeal.

You advocate becoming the Federation.


I just took the part that I find contradictory.

The Federation do not nationalize its corporations, quite the contrary. Foiritain tried, but never achieved it, which means that a Federation with nationalized corporations is something that does not exist, a fantasy.

What actually exists, is the Federation with private corporations. Much like in the State, by the way, and by your logic, it already makes the State you seem to love similar to the actual Federation.