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CSM, could you request a devblog about Incarna's future?

First post First post
Author
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#1 - 2011-10-27 01:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Dear CSM,

The Eurogamer interview with Hilmar has left some of those who actually want WIS with uncertainty about the future of Incarna. Could you ask CCP to write a short devblog that contains the following information:

1) Will you publish WIS? (if the answer is maybe, give some info as to what would need to happen for it to be possible.)

2) If yes, when? (preferably be in a "no later than" format, although they definetly should not risk breaking a promise again.)

Thanks in advance,

-The WIS lovers
Cool
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-10-27 11:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow
I am sure that a "future of EVE" blog will come out at some point, probably after the Winter Expansion. But I would not expect it before release planning for the Summer 2012 expansion is done, and IIRC that will happen a bit after the CSM summit at the end of September... er, November.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#3 - 2011-10-27 14:01:57 UTC
Trebor meant November, not September. He is old, he forgets what month it is a lot.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#4 - 2011-10-27 16:57:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
I'll take that as meaning "No, we will not ask CCP for this devblog.".

I am also sure a "future of EVE" blog will come out at some point. Wether that will adress Incarna, I'm not so sure about.
Either way, folks like me would like to know about Incarna's fate quite a bit sooner.
Cool
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2011-10-27 19:43:06 UTC
Inappropriate posts removed. Please stay polite, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2011-10-27 19:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
when will the crimes against posting end

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2011-10-27 20:01:52 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
I'll take that as meaning "No, we will not ask CCP for this devblog.".

I am also sure a "future of EVE" blog will come out at some point. Wether that will adress Incarna, I'm not so sure about.
Either way, folks like me would like to know about Incarna's fate quite a bit sooner.

thanks to ccp phantom's ongoing final solution to impolite posts i must tell you quite politely that you are demanding information about plans before anyone makes those plans and that others - but nobody on these forums, and certainly not me! - would conclude this was a symptom of brain damage because nobody could conclude that this information would be of any use to anyone

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#8 - 2011-10-28 17:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
If the answer is "No" there is no need for planning.
If the answer is "Maybe", then they would only have to say what needs to happen before they even start working on planning for Incarna (like "after hybrids are fixed and and CCP Phantom has deleted 1 million posts").
If the answer is "Yes", then all I ask for is an educated guess with enough marging for error (like "before 2015"), not much planning there either.

I'm not so sure about the rest of your post though, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people who could arrive at that conclusion. They would be wrong of course, as I am clearly stating here that that information would be of use to me, and others have done so in other posts as well.
Cool
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-10-28 17:54:47 UTC
You sound p hostile.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#10 - 2011-10-28 18:37:23 UTC
There is no sound in EVE.Blink

In case you are talking about my posts, I added some smiley's.Cool
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-28 20:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: The Mittani
I'm not really interested in championing or promoting Incarna in any way until it stops making my video card scream. I thought it was a good idea conceptually - and took a lot of flak for defending it in my 'Defending Incarna' piece, but the implementation was an utter disaster. I'd really just prefer to focus on spaceship content now.

So no, I'm not going to ask CCP for a dev blog about the future of Incarna. I hope they put the next CQs out and then shelve it until their subscriber curve stops stagnating, until after they unfuck whatever technical hurdles were causing the issues in the first place, and I'd pretty much rather that everyone at ccp just puts spaceships in this here 'online spaceship game' instead.

Your constituency - the pro-Incarna, pro-WiS types - is very small, and my constituents can't stand them. I suggest you try to make a 'pro-Incarna' CSM candidate and rally behind him/her in CSM7 to get a real idea of how much support your view has. I'd be unironically curious to find out if this group has enough votes to even make an alt-slot.

~hi~

Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-10-29 00:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
The Mittani wrote:
I'm not really interested in championing or promoting Incarna in any way until it stops making my video card scream. I thought it was a good idea conceptually - and took a lot of flak for defending it in my 'Defending Incarna' piece, but the implementation was an utter disaster. I'd really just prefer to focus on spaceship content now.

So no, I'm not going to ask CCP for a dev blog about the future of Incarna. I hope they put the next CQs out and then shelve it until their subscriber curve stops stagnating, until after they unfuck whatever technical hurdles were causing the issues in the first place, and I'd pretty much rather that everyone at ccp just puts spaceships in this here 'online spaceship game' instead.

Your constituency - the pro-Incarna, pro-WiS types - is very small, and my constituents can't stand them. I suggest you try to make a 'pro-Incarna' CSM candidate and rally behind him/her in CSM7 to get a real idea of how much support your view has. I'd be unironically curious to find out if this group has enough votes to even make an alt-slot.

There is much more pro Incarna 2008 than pro Incarna 2011 supporters... In other words much more people want Incarna if Incarna is what they want it to be. Real Incarna is not about NeX, it doesn't ignore the lore and it does have (sandbox) content.

This isn't black and white issue where people can just be divided to 2 groups. It is rather safe to say that quite many "want similiar incarna what was promised and tech demoed to them long time ago, but don't want to prioritize it over entire FiS development or see Incarna used as WoD test bed".

Obviously atm there is plenty of catch up on FiS todo, but if CCP doesn't address the Incarna in some point, there will be another storm coming. CSM7... yes - perhaps they should be ready for that.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2011-10-29 14:03:21 UTC
yes, there are more incarna 2008 supporters than 2011 supporters considering the incarna 2011 supporters consisted of hilmar and a meth junkie who thought you were asking him if he liked drugs

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#14 - 2011-10-30 03:51:32 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
I'm not really interested in championing or promoting[..] I'd really just prefer to focus on spaceship content now.

So no, I'm not going to ask CCP for a dev blog about the future of Incarna. I hope they put the next CQs out and then shelve it until their subscriber curve stops stagnating[..]
Your constituency - the pro-Incarna, pro-WiS types - is very small, and my constituents can't stand them. I suggest you try to make a 'pro-Incarna' CSM candidate and rally behind him/her in CSM7 to get a real idea of how much support your view has.

I'm not asking you to promote or champion Incarna. I'm asking you to request a devblog. I really think the few man-hours it takes to write this blog is not too much to ask. I also find the idea to start an entire campaign/have one candidate just to see if people want to see this devblog ridiculous. I think you are basicly asking me to do your job.

A few side notes:
I think that WiS might actualy help stopping the subscriber curve stagnating.
I am not so sure about the pro-WiS types being very small in number. I would like to know how you arrived at this conclusion.

As you may know, I oppose the view of the CSM being a political body. I think the CSM should function as a communication relay between the players (ALL players) and CCP. In relation to this, I would like to point out one of Hilmar's concerns:
Quote:
[..]some of my concerns right now relate to whether the CSM is maybe focused on a particular aspect of the game and I'm starting to get feedback from players that they worry the CSM is too pre-occupied by a certain playstyle. That might mean we may need to change the structure[..]

I know, you probably don't agree with him, as you didn't agree with me when I said something along these lines, but I point it out anyway in the hopes that how you value Hilmar's thoughts more than mine, even if they are similar.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#15 - 2011-10-30 04:10:20 UTC
Che Biko wrote:

I'm not asking you to promote or champion Incarna. I'm asking you to request a devblog. I really think the few man-hours it takes to write this blog is not too much to ask.


I think that such a Devblog will come with or without any action from the CSM.

But it will not come until CCP has some information on the future of Incarna to share.

Right now they've more or less dropped all content development for Incarna (and WoD) because it's obvious that there are serious technical issue with the current 3D Avatar engine.

But I don't think that any company anywhere would be likely to put out an official statement saying that they've halted development on one part of their flagship game (and moved an entire new game to the freezer) due to their inability to get bits of their code to work well enough.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-10-30 04:11:01 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
I am not so sure about the pro-WiS types being very small in number.

Just look at the sperg-infested threads about WiS. The space Barbie fetishist bloc consists of four or five people and their sock puppets.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#17 - 2011-10-31 04:54:08 UTC
I'd like to quote myself from this thread that seems to have escaped the notice of the CSM and some of the other forum visitors.
Quote:
After reviewing the thread again, it is clear to me that the majority of the post and likes in this thread are in favour of WiS in some form at some point in time.

Also, I would like to see one of those that claim the majority don't want WiS to link me a thread with nearly 30 pages where most posts/likes are against WiS, with a title similar to "Abandon WiS". I think there is one here on GD, but it appears to be rather inactive as I can't find it anymore.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-31 06:18:12 UTC
While WiS is something I personally would like to see at some point in time, it's still not something I'd say is vital for the game as it is right now. The FiS part is currently in a very sad state, and probably the most cost-effective place for CCP to spend their time at this point. Having WiS won't help in the long run if the game itself is declining in popularity because the drama and allure of 0.0 isn't there anymore.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Silpher
The Pirisians
#19 - 2011-10-31 08:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Silpher
Lord Zim wrote:
While WiS is something I personally would like to see at some point in time, it's still not something I'd say is vital for the game as it is right now. The FiS part is currently in a very sad state, and probably the most cost-effective place for CCP to spend their time at this point. Having WiS won't help in the long run if the game itself is declining in popularity because the drama and allure of 0.0 isn't there anymore.


I would say that it is absolutely vital for the game as it is right now because it has been introduced to the game. It is not even half of a feature. It's just a foundation. If any singular FiS feature was introduced in that fashion, would it be acceptable to leave it that way? Hell no.

The FiS part will has always and will always be in a "sad state". It is the nature of this beast. FiS is so vast, with so many moving parts and areas to balance out that it will ALWAYS be considered to be in a **** state. And being tasked with keeping hundreds of thousands of human beings interested in a single game, they need to keep giving them new and more interesting things to do, which will always throw any pre-balance back out of balance.

We will never win the war on lag as long as 250 people decide to fight 249 people at a single location; and no matter what CCP does to encourage otherwise, unless they start instituting some very liberal restrictions on fleet/engagement size, these mega fleets will always amass in 0.0.

I honestly kept subscribing to Eve for years, as an inactive pilot waiting for Incarna to continue supporting CCP and Eve Online. It was Incarna that kept me around, not FiS. I've drilled FiS into the ground. I ******* LOVE the Eve universe. I don't want to leave, so Incarna being introduced was a momentous occasion for me. And this is what I subbed for all that time? This is what I was supporting?

I expect some manor of delivery after that. Not as an immature **** who wants what he wants but because CCP fed me bits and pieces of information about this feat that had me more excited for any video game, ever. Player owned bars and clothing studios, designing outfits and eve producing a line of clothing. The potential for a personalized modules store (that is, a personalized store selling modules, not personalized modules). Underground drug trafficking and gambling. This is what CCP said, not what I inferred.

See, CCP used to actually be specific about what it was they were doing. They used to tell us what the big idea was. They had sections on the website that outlined what was about to be introduced, what was being developed, and what was just beginning to be talked about.

And then they go seemingly black-out on Incarna, change the whole game plan moving from a bunch of intelligent gamers making a game for intelligent gamers to a corporation of capitalists focusing on corporate expansion and bottom lines. They introduce this, and have been nondescript about everything Incarna ever since.

yaaay we get more station environments, but I want the old CCP back, not just the old Incarna.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-31 11:34:44 UTC
And I expect they will go back and expand on incarna, once they've stopped the sucking chest wounds in 0.0.

Just fyi, I wasn't even talking about lag. Just to make sure I'm on the same page, you think 500 fighting in one solar system is huge, and should be laggy? It isn't, at least not if the system has been reinforced. Even fights up to 1000+ are "okay" on a reinforced node, but at this point supercarriers are usually always in the picture, and their fighters/fighterbombers suck up CPU like a wet sponge.

But lag isn't even the major problem of 0.0, the major problems of 0.0 are, I think, ones of motivation at this point. And the causes for this lie in the rewards we can reap while in 0.0 (I'm not talking about moons, those are more corp/alliance assets than personal assets, at least for normal alliances/corps), how hard it is to take/lose space (look at how IT Alliance's space still being on the map months after IT Alliance basicallly ceased to exist, because people just couldn't be arsed to grind the structures) etc etc etc, and unless you had the possibility to bloody the other guy's supers time and time again, either through your superior supers or fleet designed specifically for taking one or two supers each engagement, you'll end up with supers dropped on your face.

In other words, the barrier for entry for smaller alliances are in my view too high, which means that 0.0 isn't getting as much new blood as it could've gotten, which means it's stagnating. And I blame this largely on 2 things, 1) the sov system, and 2) the rewards for the individual pilot.

Personally, I wish they'd either make SOV descriptive instead of prescriptive, i.e. the actual SOV would be more an indication of who spent most time there rather than being dependent on a structure being shot, but the main thing I wish CCP would manage to implement is a system where you can have, say, multiple fleets of 50-100 running attacks on multiple systems, so there'd be something more to do for alliance leaders than just go "take this system. now take this system. now this.", there could be feints and big pushes etc. Anything, just not the current system where we either see fierce resistence (and up towards 1000+ in local) for a few days, only to be replaced by nothing but structure grinds because the other alliance just gave up and moved away.

The rewards for the individual pilot should also be a lot higher than hisec, because it's more risk to be in 0.0 than in hisec, logistics are harder than in hisec etc etc etc, and I'd want to incentivize people to get out of hisec and into nullsec so there's fresh blood out there which are enthusiastic about being there, and to have fight with.

As for going black-out on Incarna, if you've been around eve for as long as you say you have, then CCP going blackout on a feature shouldn't be news to you. They revamped the entire SOV system 18 months ago, and apart from a few timer changes and a few resist tweaks to SBUs etc, they've done nothing to add to this feature. In fact, it wasn't even the SOV revamp that was planned, it was a part of the featureset planned for that expansion. Sound familiar?

To be honest, the SOV itself being reworked to encourage multiple small fleets in the manner I hope for is probably not going to happen, but it's a pipedream I think would liven up 0.0 again. What we're looking at right now, though, is a few buffs and nerfs to ships and weapon systems to make 0.0 a bit less of the supers online it has been the last 12-18 months, and that'll probably be it before they change their focus yet again. It'll probably have some effect on warfare, since we don't have to be as worried about getting hotdropped by a supercap fleet with a minor support fleet, but I wish CCP would go further.

Once that's done, then CCP should at the very least look into people being able to have other career possibilities in hisec than is currently the case, and also expand on their framework of incarna.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

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