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[LENDS] Bond Offering $250m @ 8.5%
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Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#41 - 2011-10-27 18:38:27 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
Now the legitimate investments will be able to roam free without fear of having their good names tarnished.


If only there were such a thing. Alas this is not the the truth of the dark world in which we live. All investments are tied together in this viper's nest of lies, shadows, and deception. The worst of all are those who feast off of the misery and suffering of the scammed by pretending to represent the forces of honesty and good, while simultaneously encouraging that which they so decry.

Only when we are free of them all, will we be able to move forward together.



Dude you negativity sucks! Just because alot of people stole, cheated, and lied doesn't mean every single person is behind a massive scam, how can people like Amarr Citizen 155 and Grendell be so successful and be MD elites like you and alot of people say? Its because people actually gave them a chance, these guys handle or control tens or hundreds of billions and are entrusted with it all.

Lets see how much you will be talking when you are proven wrong.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2011-10-27 18:48:35 UTC
Personal Banker wrote:
Dude you negativity sucks! Just because alot of people stole, cheated, and lied doesn't mean every single person is behind a massive scam, how can people like Amarr Citizen 155 and Grendell be so successful and be MD elites like you and alot of people say? Its because people actually gave them a chance, these guys handle or control tens or hundreds of billions and are entrusted with it all.


Really? Grendell and AC started by grinding rep with pointless bonds from fresh-cooked alts?

ROFL

I hope you're only posting because your biomass counter is still ticking down. Actually, I take that back. You're so hilariously stupid that I'm now enjoying this. Please keep posting.
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-10-27 18:52:47 UTC
Personal Banker wrote:


Dude you negativity sucks! Just because alot of people stole, cheated, and lied doesn't mean every single person is behind a massive scam, how can people like Amarr Citizen 155 and Grendell be so successful and be MD elites like you and alot of people say? Its because people actually gave them a chance, these guys handle or control tens or hundreds of billions and are entrusted with it all.

Lets see how much you will be talking when you are proven wrong.


You as the borrower will be seen as a scammer right away when you come to MD asking for ISK. You need to differentiate yourself, and everything you said had the opposite effect. The fact that you said it was to build your reputation was a dead give-away. You might as well biomass and try again.

Plus you had two other characters that tried the same thing post in your thread, more red flags.

You can prove Elise wrong with your next request, but that won't win you over anyone's trust. What will is a true need, a sound plan, transparency/disclosure, and good collateral (sorry but the odds are stacked against you without collateral). You won't find any issues if you have these things.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-10-27 18:56:26 UTC
SabotNoob wrote:
What will is a true need, a sound plan, transparency/disclosure, and good collateral (sorry but the odds are stacked against you without collateral). You won't find any issues if you have these things.


If you have collateral, you can get money.

If you don't have collateral, you can't get money.
Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#45 - 2011-10-27 20:33:39 UTC
Kostolany wrote:
All guys are crying "scam, scam, scam" here... it's boring and better to shut up in this case. Everyone must have a chance to build up rep.

What's wrong with it? Mate, i will invest this 25m - a bit less for me, but i want to see only the good site of people... i am positive in opposite to these guys here in MD.

Send me an mail and we will make the deal. It's possible to get more investors because of my blog....
Best regards

Kostolany


Isk received expect interest payments on the 15th and 30th of the month
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#46 - 2011-10-27 21:06:20 UTC
Personal Banker wrote:


And I dont want one person giving me the isk even for 2%, the whole point is to have multiple people lend me isk so that when i do pay them back, the comments on this tread will reflect more then one person saying he is trustworthy.



That's unfortunate.
Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#47 - 2011-10-27 21:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Personal Banker
Esan Vartesa wrote:
Personal Banker wrote:


And I dont want one person giving me the isk even for 2%, the whole point is to have multiple people lend me isk so that when i do pay them back, the comments on this tread will reflect more then one person saying he is trustworthy.



That's unfortunate.


well my plan was to have more then just one investor, I already received $25m from Kostolany
Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#48 - 2011-10-28 11:37:56 UTC
IMO this is too small to be a scam (though i did fall for a 100m one Oops)

@Personal Banker
Mail me in game please

and even if this is "rep grinding" to pull off a bigger scam, you need the rep first and the big scams are easier to spot than "most" of the small ones.
Luxi Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2011-10-28 13:46:13 UTC
Xylem Viliana wrote:
IMO this is too small to be a scam (though i did fall for a 100m one Oops).

No amount is ever too small to be a scam.

I've been scammed out of 50 Million ISK and the guy put a lot of work into getting it out of me. Was annoying more then anything, but it did teach me that just because someone asks for a small amounts doesn't automatically mean it isn't a scam. And if you trust every person who comes here asking for 25 Million then scammers will recognize that and use it to their advantage.
Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#50 - 2011-10-28 14:30:29 UTC
Luxi Daphiti wrote:


I've been scammed out of 50 Million ISK and the guy put a lot of work into getting it out of me. Was annoying more then anything, but it did teach me that just because someone asks for a small amounts doesn't automatically mean it isn't a scam. And if you trust every person who comes here asking for 25 Million then scammers will recognize that and use it to their advantage.



Agree'd but that 25 million that "if" this is a scam would take me no time at all to make back, the 100m was a bit annoying because it took longer to make ISK then, but now i spend more time sitting in a station reading a book sometimes, either that or chatting on TS
Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#51 - 2011-10-28 14:35:11 UTC
Xylem Viliana wrote:
IMO this is too small to be a scam (though i did fall for a 100m one Oops)

@Personal Banker
Mail me in game please

and even if this is "rep grinding" to pull off a bigger scam, you need the rep first and the big scams are easier to spot than "most" of the small ones.



Thank you isk received, interest will be paid on or before the 15th and 30th .
Luxi Daphiti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2011-10-28 14:38:12 UTC
Xylem Viliana wrote:
Luxi Daphiti wrote:

I've been scammed out of 50 Million ISK and the guy put a lot of work into getting it out of me. Was annoying more then anything, but it did teach me that just because someone asks for a small amounts doesn't automatically mean it isn't a scam. And if you trust every person who comes here asking for 25 Million then scammers will recognize that and use it to their advantage.

Agree'd but that 25 million that "if" this is a scam would take me no time at all to make back, the 100m was a bit annoying because it took longer to make ISK then, but now i spend more time sitting in a station reading a book sometimes, either that or chatting on TS

Suppose you're right there, 25 Million isn't a great deal of ISK - so I too would perhaps be more willing to invest such an amount then a much higher sum. Although I'm always suspicious that these small-volume rep grinding bonds are merely a set up for a larger scam. Can't plan for that though - maybe I should stop being so paranoid! Big smile
Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#53 - 2011-10-28 16:17:07 UTC
Luxi Daphiti wrote:
Xylem Viliana wrote:
Luxi Daphiti wrote:

I've been scammed out of 50 Million ISK and the guy put a lot of work into getting it out of me. Was annoying more then anything, but it did teach me that just because someone asks for a small amounts doesn't automatically mean it isn't a scam. And if you trust every person who comes here asking for 25 Million then scammers will recognize that and use it to their advantage.

Agree'd but that 25 million that "if" this is a scam would take me no time at all to make back, the 100m was a bit annoying because it took longer to make ISK then, but now i spend more time sitting in a station reading a book sometimes, either that or chatting on TS

Suppose you're right there, 25 Million isn't a great deal of ISK - so I too would perhaps be more willing to invest such an amount then a much higher sum. Although I'm always suspicious that these small-volume rep grinding bonds are merely a set up for a larger scam. Can't plan for that though - maybe I should stop being so paranoid! Big smile



No you as well as the rest of the folks have a valid "scam" claim, tbh i never even seen a rep grind bond before, but again I will say like I have said before I have no want or need to scam. I should hopefully have enough capital to start lending through this company within a month or so, and I am pondering on whether to buy 3 plexs for $50 bucks seems like a good deal. If I do go ahead with that you will soon see my adverts on giving out collateralize loans. Fly safe!

-Chris
Kostolany
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-10-28 21:28:21 UTC
You guys are Talking about Things to much.
Do Things are changing the universe. You filled
Up 3 Pages because of 250m - thats Crazy!!!

No fear, pain is only temporary.
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
#55 - 2011-10-31 11:22:37 UTC
*facepalms*

Another one of these threads? Really? Can we put down the pitchforks for a minute, people? That makeup makes you look hideous in torchlight, by the way.


1) On the topic of Personal Banker himself: he hit me up ingame a couple days ago. We talked for about half an hour, and I gave him advice, both on the general "what do you want to get out of EVE" stuff as well as how to write an informative/hopefully effective loan offering. Maybe he's legit and honestly wanted advice; maybe he's planning to scam and was hoping I'd write up a flowery summary of our chat to help make him look legit. I don't know, nor do I particularly care. The fact that he approached me to follow up this thread ingame is pertinent information for any potential future investors, though, so there it is. Make of it what you will.

Personally, I hope you're legit so we can maybe share drinks at Fanfest some day. Who knows.


2) On the topic of rep grinding: *rummages through old forum posts, blowing the dust off one*

From here (7th post), edited for typos because I never make typos:

I wrote:
Isaar Kirom wrote:
... Much of the dealings here seem to rely heavily on name recognition and forum reputation ...

Yup, they do. Unfortunately it's considered taboo to admit it. MD's conventional wisdom includes the following tidbits, and I'm not sure which I find funniest/saddest:

1) Name recognition = time sunk into building up a name = trustworthiness. Rep therefore matters. Don't badmouth people that have been around longer than you or the community will punish you for it. Similarly, don't expect to be taken seriously until you've been around for a while, regardless of your intentions.

2) Never admit that rep matters. Doing so means someone will point out it makes no sense (what, the scammers aren't aware this is how it works too?) and you'll look stupid.

3) You earn points for correctly predicting that a new venture will fail or that a new name is a scammer. You earn no points for correctly predicting the opposite. Therefore, everything is a horrible idea and everyone, especially everyone new, is a scammer.


"Grinding rep" is not Lord Voldemort. You're allowed to say its name out loud.

I'm tired of these "rep-grinder" witch hunts. If, hypothetically, Personal Banker is legit, then he needs money. If he needs money, then he needs to be trusted. Rep-grinding might not be the only way to become trusted on these boards (collateral comes to mind, but it's not an option for everyone/every business plan), but it's certainly the most cost-effective. Therefore, if, hypothetically, Personal Banker is legit, then he may very well need to "grind rep." Stop yelling at him for being honest about the obvious.


3) On the topic of "buying rep:"

Lauren Hellfury wrote:
What you (the OP) is trying to do here, whether you realise it or not, is buy rep/trust. That's not how it works. You could just as easily do the same with a 1 minute bond.


... which is exactly what happened, successfully, in this thread from August (with a followup thread/offering as well, IIRC). If you want to become known as trustworthy with, say, 1B (which is a perfectly legitimate goal - see point #2 above), the best way to do that is to have already held and returned 1B, completely independent of whatever business need you did or did not have for that 1B. If you're willing to pay for a long series of "interest" payments on a series of slowly-growing, short-term loans made specifically for the purpose of demonstrating your willingness to return cash handed to you, it might make sense, and it's certainly a novel and creative approach to "demonstrating trustworthiness."


4) On the topic of, well, me:

Lauren Hellfury wrote:
Take a trip down memory lane and go eve-search Kethas Protagonist. He started out completely wrong and now is able to pull in 30b.


I'm flattered that you use me as an example for new MD'ers to follow, but I can't figure out what change in my opinions or M.O. you might be alluding to. I assume you're referring to this thread, my first, where I received a lot of flak for daring to mention the "rep grind" explicitly. Back then, I thought the best way to respect my investors was to be honest with them, so I wasn't afraid to acknowledge the "rep grinding" side benefit of launching a loan - letting me successfully launch additional, larger loans in the future, providing opportunities to creditors and allowing my own industry to flourish.

I still believe that being honest with your creditors is the right way to go. Indeed, I'm here, defending it. If I "starting out completely wrong" like you say, then I'm still completely wrong... yet, somehow, still able to "pull in 30b."
Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
#56 - 2011-10-31 11:39:34 UTC
(Sorry for the wall of text. Almost done.)

5) On the topic of how much detail to go into regarding your business plan when writing an offering:

Lauren Hellfury wrote:
As for not wanting to reveal who you do your trading with, that's complete bull. I did it with the char I used to do stuff, Kethas does, Tekota did the list goes on.


Please do not put words in my mouth, particularly when talking to a new poster that was probably not privvy to the original conversation. I've always been somewhat paranoid regarding writing my business plans out for the whole world to read (see: my first loan thread, in particular pages 3 and 4, where both you and Estel Arador try to tease out all the details you can). Privacy serves both myself and investors. By protecting myself from copycats, I can earn more profits, expand faster, and afford to borrow more and offer better terms to creditors.

I do attempt to provide what details I can that are creditor-relevant. "This new business I'm expanding into has a sky-high capital ceiling, so I'll probably be borrowing more in the future" is informative to investors, as is "I'm refocusing into this business, which requires less keyboard time and thus will help keep me from burning out."

"I make T1 cruisers. Specifically, I both buy the minerals and sell the ships in Amarr, because the Arbitrator and the Omen have great profit margins. I do all the hauling myself to guarantee uptime, and my office two jumps away in Romi always has plenty of manufacturing slots available. All in all, I make about 300M a day on 10B in capital, between the blueprints and the working capital," is not creditor-relevant information; it's a step-by-step guide for someone else to steal my business and cut my margins. (No, that's not what I do, it's an example I picked out of thin air. Don't emulate it. Or do! I don't care, because it's not what I do.)
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-10-31 13:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Elise DarkStar
WTF is this?

Guy runs a couple of repgrind bonds and now he thinks he's got the midas touch? Did you get your Super Elite Spacebusiness Ultra Decoder Ring in the mail this morning, and now you're "elite" enough to prop up your or your friends fresh scam alts?

Obvious repgrinder drawing from the same pool of 4 shill alts as all the scams in the past 4 months comes to the defence of an even more obvious repgrind just starting out.

"Investments" are such a hilarious farce. The best part now is that it's so dead here that it's the same 4 scam toons talking to the same 4 shill toons in every "bond".
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#58 - 2011-10-31 14:02:43 UTC
So much angst and chest beating for something which is only a game...oops sorry i meant something that is serious spaceship market discussions minus the evil and inhuman investment/scam opportunities. Lol
Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#59 - 2011-10-31 14:09:00 UTC
Thank you to everyone who took the time to give me pointers and tips on how to properly navigate the MD forum. Special thanks to those two people (Xylem Viliana and Kostolany) who have given me the chance to prove people wrong. Thank you to Kethas for taking time to talk to me and giving me some tips as well.

In regarding my corp:
I have am almost finished with a business plan for this corporation and created a website as well that I am just finishing up. My goal is to start lending within two months or so, depending on how my freighter trading routes go and being able to save up initial capital.

Till then I look forward to seeing you guys around on other MD forums, fly safe!

Chris
Personal Banker
Universal Eve Lending Corp
#60 - 2011-11-14 15:18:16 UTC
Bonds have been paid back in full with two months worth of interest as promised, look forward to talking to you guys again!