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Goonswarm: Return on Investment

Author
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#81 - 2013-08-05 15:10:02 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I've shot hardened POSes, they're pretty painful.

Shooting dickstars with sub-caps makes me borderline violent.

That is kind of the point.

So, .... better get started shooting then.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-08-05 15:43:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I've shot hardened POSes, they're pretty painful.

Shooting dickstars with sub-caps makes me borderline violent.

That is kind of the point.

So, .... better get started shooting then.


**** no I don't want the moons, I'll gladly shoot anyone that feels they have the time to shoot at them though.....takes a hell of a lot less time. Twisted
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2013-08-05 16:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Hmm, the PR has changed? If Fountain is such a gold mine, then how is it possible that Test ran out of isk?

Dear Bees, please try to keep your stories consistent, confusion is one of the first signs of CCD...

among many other reasons, because one of their directors, baki yuku, sold all of their r64s at crazy low prices to an alliance member coincidentally also named baki yuku
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#84 - 2013-08-05 16:11:05 UTC
hilariously that is not even in the top two things baki yuku has done that completely ****** test
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#85 - 2013-08-06 04:21:11 UTC
Tell us the notech story where he pretty much just dumped a big pile of TEST isk into our coffers.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-08-06 04:33:34 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tell us the notech story where he pretty much just dumped a big pile of TEST isk into our coffers.



Wasn't it something about trying to buy out all the supply of a moon mineral because they (the HBC) had control over much of the supply of that particular moongoo thinking they could raise the price after?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#87 - 2013-08-06 05:27:38 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Tell us the notech story where he pretty much just dumped a big pile of TEST isk into our coffers.

Wasn't it something about trying to buy out all the supply of a moon mineral because they (the HBC) had control over much of the supply of that particular moongoo thinking they could raise the price after?

They didn't actually have control over that much of the moongoo, that's the thing. There was a speculation spike, which made the CFC money, and possibly a certain Baki Yuku money, but the HBC didn't sell their stuff and the price went back down after people realized they couldn't constrain the supply enough.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Josef Djugashvilis
#88 - 2013-08-06 08:58:49 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:
I just wanted to shoot at stuff, call me old fashioned.


Hello old fashioned.

Happy now?

This is not a signature.

Joss56
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-08-08 13:12:56 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

The war's over and we can stop spinning, we all know it was 750bil a week day.


Wait- the war is over now?
I didn't spend much time in Eve or the TEST forums after 6VDT, so this is a serious question here.
Is the great war officially over now and can we all go home, marry our fiancées, buy beautiful little farms in Kansas, grow old and sit all day on the stoops in rocking chairs and yell at the kids to get off the lawn?



Nope this is the moment where the best happens, small gang pvp, solo pvp, assault frigs fleets etc which awesome and from my point of view the most exciting pvp form in null.
Unless you get drop by a fake R&K elite dudes in faction battleships killing small stuff/pipe bombing and running away like cowards at the sight of a single fleet same size to get a real fight because loosingexpensivepinatasinKBisbad.AVI
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-08-08 13:50:48 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Hmm, the PR has changed? If Fountain is such a gold mine, then how is it possible that Test ran out of isk?

Dear Bees, please try to keep your stories consistent, confusion is one of the first signs of CCD...

among many other reasons, because one of their directors, baki yuku, sold all of their r64s at crazy low prices to an alliance member coincidentally also named baki yuku



This is hilarious.

Tell me its not a joke or I'll be disappointed, I'm getting that smile...

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2013-08-08 13:52:46 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Hmm, the PR has changed? If Fountain is such a gold mine, then how is it possible that Test ran out of isk?

Dear Bees, please try to keep your stories consistent, confusion is one of the first signs of CCD...

among many other reasons, because one of their directors, baki yuku, sold all of their r64s at crazy low prices to an alliance member coincidentally also named baki yuku



This is hilarious.

Tell me its not a joke or I'll be disappointed, I'm getting that smile...



Nope, they denationized all of the moons and dude bought them up after the fact from the corps.
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#92 - 2013-08-08 13:58:34 UTC
Which is why he sends rage broadcasts when they lose the remaining ones in Delve to PIZZA and BL

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#93 - 2013-08-08 15:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

This is hilarious.

Tell me its not a joke or I'll be disappointed, I'm getting that smile...

It's not at all a joke. Early on in the fountain war, TEST was insisting that they weren't actually losing that many r64s, so blawrf found all of them. TEST then told us that because all of the r64s were privately owned, they didn't count. Baki Yuku then popped into the kugu thread and announced how he'd bought all of the r64s for a song because (like everyone else with a brain) he was sure they'd get rebalanced into being worth a lot. He then could not at all figure out why we all started basically rolling on the floor laughing at how open he was about how he'd ****** his alliance over.

He was also responsible for "NOTEC", where TEST stopped selling all their neo so the price would spike as an attempted economic warfare against goonswarm (back when tech was the bottleneck). Unfortunately for TEST, we'd been stockpiling massive amounts of r64s throughout the tech era because we figured they'd be rebalanced later (and this is why we didn't sell our r64s to random directors). So when the price was 70k, goonswarm was busy selling as much neo as the market could bear. There was no way NOTEC could actually work: neo wasn't bottlenecked, and TEST didnt' control enough to withhold enough to spike the market and make it up on the remainder. That meant they had to rely on other alliances to not cheat which was never, ever going to happen (especially since one of those alliances was PL, which owns their moons privately). The only thing TEST could do was not sell at all, build up a giant stockpile, then try to sell on the way down. That doesn't work well in the best of cases. When another alliance has huge amounts of neo, knows what's going on, and loves isk it reeeeeeeeeeeally doesn't work. We sold millions of units at prices much higher than they are today. TEST didn't make any money at all off of it. It was basically baki yuku handing us 300b+ (which we then spent on invading fountain, thanks baki) straight out of test's coffers.

baki was also responsible for the z9pp disaster that should have wiped out 100+ test capitals and only lost 30 or so thanks to :ccp:, responsible for the latest black legion disaster, and responsible for a fuckup so massively hilarious that test has kept it a complete secret from everybody after they finally figured it out and fixed it
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#94 - 2013-08-08 17:44:39 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

This is hilarious.

Tell me its not a joke or I'll be disappointed, I'm getting that smile...

It's not at all a joke. Early on in the fountain war, TEST was insisting that they weren't actually losing that many r64s, so blawrf found all of them. TEST then told us that because all of the r64s were privately owned, they didn't count. Baki Yuku then popped into the kugu thread and announced how he'd bought all of the r64s for a song because (like everyone else with a brain) he was sure they'd get rebalanced into being worth a lot. He then could not at all figure out why we all started basically rolling on the floor laughing at how open he was about how he'd ****** his alliance over.

He was also responsible for "NOTEC", where TEST stopped selling all their neo so the price would spike as an attempted economic warfare against goonswarm (back when tech was the bottleneck). Unfortunately for TEST, we'd been stockpiling massive amounts of r64s throughout the tech era because we figured they'd be rebalanced later (and this is why we didn't sell our r64s to random directors). So when the price was 70k, goonswarm was busy selling as much neo as the market could bear. There was no way NOTEC could actually work: neo wasn't bottlenecked, and TEST didnt' control enough to withhold enough to spike the market and make it up on the remainder. That meant they had to rely on other alliances to not cheat which was never, ever going to happen (especially since one of those alliances was PL, which owns their moons privately). The only thing TEST could do was not sell at all, build up a giant stockpile, then try to sell on the way down. That doesn't work well in the best of cases. When another alliance has huge amounts of neo, knows what's going on, and loves isk it reeeeeeeeeeeally doesn't work. We sold millions of units at prices much higher than they are today. TEST didn't make any money at all off of it. It was basically baki yuku handing us 300b+ (which we then spent on invading fountain, thanks baki) straight out of test's coffers.

baki was also responsible for the z9pp disaster that should have wiped out 100+ test capitals and only lost 30 or so thanks to :ccp:, responsible for the latest black legion disaster, and responsible for a fuckup so massively hilarious that test has kept it a complete secret from everybody after they finally figured it out and fixed it

Fountain2013, The Mittani's Last Mistake, Baki Yuku Strikes Back, Revenge of Progodlegend, Return of Gevlon Goblin

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-08-08 19:29:45 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:

However, the moon income goes into the wallets of a few wealthy individuals whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts. anyone who welps a ship, in a way that didn't involve ratting or solo derping into a gate camp

FTFY

Vera Algaert wrote:
the core point of that paragraph was "whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts".

But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn.

I'm not saying that you running unprofitable pvp fleets is any worse than running unprofitable mining fleets - some people are willing to do pvp for free, other people like to do mining for free, who am I to judge? But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.


People need to get paid to log into an internet spaceship game and go shoot other people in internet spaceships?

Your calculations don't even scratch the surface. 6VDT alone took ~8 hours with what, 2500 CFC members? You send them out to a $10/hour job instead, that's $200,000 (!) or 108 Trillion ISK! Not even counting any other activities that took place that day both before and after, or the rest of the campaign.

Oh wait. But that's work, not fun. Kind of like ratting.

On a side note: The opportunity cost of me playing video games to begin with instead of getting an extra part time job, is somewhere in the neighborhood of $300,000. I wasted my life and I want it baaack! Oh well, I would have wasted it anyway.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#96 - 2013-08-08 20:50:12 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

However, the moon income goes into the wallets of a few wealthy individuals whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts. anyone who welps a ship, in a way that didn't involve ratting or solo derping into a gate camp

FTFY
Vera Algaert wrote:
the core point of that paragraph was "whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts".

But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn.

I'm not saying that you running unprofitable pvp fleets is any worse than running unprofitable mining fleets - some people are willing to do pvp for free, other people like to do mining for free, who am I to judge? But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.

People need to get paid to log into an internet spaceship game and go shoot other people in internet spaceships?

Your calculations don't even scratch the surface. 6VDT alone took ~8 hours with what, 2500 CFC members? You send them out to a $10/hour job instead, that's $200,000 (!) or 108 Trillion ISK! Not even counting any other activities that took place that day both before and after, or the rest of the campaign.

Oh wait. But that's work, not fun. Kind of like ratting.

On a side note: The opportunity cost of me playing video games to begin with instead of getting an extra part time job, is somewhere in the neighborhood of $300,000. I wasted my life and I want it baaack! Oh well, I would have wasted it anyway.

108 TRILLION ISK. My goodness. And how much could TEST have made had they followed Gevlon Goblin's advice to go work and buy plex to sell for isk to donate to the alliance?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2013-08-08 20:52:27 UTC
Actually why AM I playing eve online.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Skill Training Online
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-08-09 02:55:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Actually why AM I playing eve online.


You want the sexy men that come with EVE-celebrity... sweaty large breasted men.

Thank You Obama!