These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1581 - 2013-08-18 16:24:45 UTC
getting closer. what if we spend some cash on faction hardeners? foes that close the gap?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
S1dy
Uplifting Infernal Paradise
#1582 - 2013-08-18 16:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: S1dy
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
getting closer. what if we spend some cash on faction hardeners? foes that close the gap?


What if we spend the same into faction items for the Damnation!? Besides that nearly no one would spend that much money for a ship (read: Vulture!) that dies so fast right know. Go trolling in other forums. You don't know what you're talking about.

EDIT: Besides that you're missing my point, but oh well... Shocked

EDIT 2: I'm giving up in both threads, it's pointless anyway. The changes will come as they are stated right now, so there's no chance to get them changed into something reasonable for Odyssey 1.1.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1583 - 2013-08-18 16:56:00 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
getting closer. what if we spend some cash on faction hardeners? foes that close the gap?


Why not using Officer Moduls and build a T1 BC with more EHP then a Damnnation... What is this some kind of Trolling?!

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#1584 - 2013-08-18 18:10:48 UTC
Just guessing but I think he was alluding to the fact that faction Invulns offer a higher resist bonus than a faction EANM. Which closes the eHP gap between shield CS's and the Damnation.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1585 - 2013-08-18 18:14:46 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Just guessing but I think he was alluding to the fact that faction Invulns offer a higher resist bonus than a faction EANM. Which closes the eHP gap between shield CS's and the Damnation.


Someone knows their modules :)
Eldrith Jhandar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1586 - 2013-08-18 19:30:34 UTC
Current vulture (so slightly less dps than the proposed vulture)
T2 extender rigs (cheap now)
5% shield implant
Dcu
Caldari navy power diags x3
3 extenders b-type em hardener 2 t2 invulns
Overheat an invuln and em hard and u get 379kehp (overheating for over 3 minutes)
With the slight hp increase it will get u can get even closer to 400k
With a prop mod it is decreased to 325-330
Faction invulns and prop mod 373-380k ehp
And yes the big alliances can afford these modules

Not saying it doesn't need a slight buff but you need to actually fit some decent fits, eccm on a vulture with no guns? Wut... Probe launcher? Cyno? Good fc's won't have their booster using either

When will we see an update based on player feedback for all of these ships?
Vulture should have the second optimal bonus changed to 5% optimal and damage
Nighthawk needs work
Eos needs work
Abso and damnation both need work
Claymore I hear needs a little bit of love but idk it seems quite good on sisi
Havnt heard much or plastered with the sleip
Astarte seems pretty good
Cargo holds needa be a bit higher, dronebay on the eos
Lol
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1587 - 2013-08-18 19:50:04 UTC
S1dy wrote:

So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.

Tell me: What's your point here?!


You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so).
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1588 - 2013-08-18 20:15:48 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
S1dy wrote:

So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.

Tell me: What's your point here?!


You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so).


Your fit gets jammed faster you can say "dideldum", but Target calling isnt important for Command Ships i guess?

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
#1589 - 2013-08-18 20:35:18 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
S1dy wrote:

So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.

Tell me: What's your point here?!


You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so).


Your fit gets jammed faster you can say "dideldum", but Target calling isnt important for Command Ships i guess?




Nope command ships are to provide links. Let the FC call targets.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1590 - 2013-08-18 20:35:43 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
S1dy wrote:

So, the Vulture gets overheated 133.959 EHP, with her own links 164.389 EHP.

Tell me: What's your point here?!


You Sir, are terrible at fitting ships for tanking. That's all I can see here. http://i.imgur.com/bsevzW4.jpg?1 this got links, and can possibly fit rails aswell. Just throwin' on some smartbombs cause whatever. Has a siege warfare mindlink. OH goes up to 260k - that's not all that bad compared to damnation and reps land 4 ticks earlier (3.6secs or so).


Your fit gets jammed faster you can say "dideldum", but Target calling isnt important for Command Ships i guess?


If you're that desperate for ECCM, I'd rather suggest finding some utility mids for remote eccm instead of gimping tank. On the same page, what about dampening? Fly into a celestisfleet and get damped to a scanres of a sieged dread. Have fun target calling with that. Tl;Dr: Don't bother with local stuff on a shieldtanked CS.

I was unaware that the fleetbooster has to be the target caller. I only noticed a command position of some sort being required to tag/broadcast.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1591 - 2013-08-18 20:39:32 UTC
Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
#1592 - 2013-08-18 20:43:05 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield.




Thats the nice Thing in Eve booster can just be booster and target caller can be someother toon in fleet. Eve has the flexibility to suit each needs.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#1593 - 2013-08-18 20:44:02 UTC
Icarus fall wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield.




Thats the nice Thing in Eve booster can just be booster and target caller can be someother toon in fleet. Eve has the flexibility to suit each needs.



From a certain scale on, the need for tank becomes more pressing though.
Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
#1594 - 2013-08-18 20:48:13 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Icarus fall wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Thats the nice Thing in Eve you can be Booster and Fleet Commander for Target Calling at once, i know thats kinda scary, when they usualy sit behind a forcefield.




Thats the nice Thing in Eve booster can just be booster and target caller can be someother toon in fleet. Eve has the flexibility to suit each needs.



From a certain scale on, the need for tank becomes more pressing though.



Could be but any largest fleet I've been in has had multiple people ready to lead fleet when the first one died.
Eldrith Jhandar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1595 - 2013-08-18 20:49:33 UTC
Your inexperience in organized fleets is showing
If you want target call from booster fine go for it, rarely will people jam you, or if the enemy knows u are target caller bring remote eccm and remote sensor boosters
Those modules are not uncommon in well organized fleets..........
Hell you can target call without locking
Just have one or two people who will let you know how their tank is holding so u don't even have to lock anything
Just sit there and watch lazer beams fly everywhere
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1596 - 2013-08-18 21:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
You can organize Fleets in many ways, i cant See the problem with some Personal ECCM, because jamming the Target Caller is a common Thing and can be a real pain in the Ass.

Anyway its regardless if you use ECCM or any other Med Slot Module because you still have more disadventage with a Vulture then a Damnnation on the Grid. Less EHP with higher costs in fitting and isk, thats just pure inbalance and also dont solve the Problem that Damnnation and a half baked Caldari CS can handle Fleet fights.

Edit: BTW i dont say your wrong, because you arent, but my Point that the current Command Ship changes are nice for Gangs but lame for Fleets stands still.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1597 - 2013-08-18 21:46:33 UTC
so now that we have seen that the nighthawk and vulture can be built to withstand 350k of alpha, are we all a little happier?

;-)

/MC

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Eldrith Jhandar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1598 - 2013-08-18 21:48:15 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
You can organize Fleets in many ways, i cant See the problem with some Personal ECCM, because jamming the Target Caller is a common Thing and can be a real pain in the Ass.

Anyway its regardless if you use ECCM or any other Med Slot Module because you still have more disadventage with a Vulture then a Damnnation on the Grid. Less EHP with higher costs in fitting and isk, thats just pure inbalance and also dont solve the Problem that Damnnation and a half baked Caldari CS can handle Fleet fights.



The fittings are quite common in large fleets, or mid sized fleets/alliances... And if you are in a large fleet and you don't have semi competent people who can sy hey target isn't breaking lets switch, then idk what fleets ur in
Does it make it more difficult absolutely
But remote eccm-ing the fc is much better and doesn't sacrifice your tank...

There is a big difference between the damnation and vulture but not nearly as big and nasty as you say
The vulture can get over 300k ehp very easily

And tho I don't agree with it the damnation is gonna get nerfed badly

And I do not agree with making the claymore and eos have an hp bonus
Without the resist bonus it won't work, and u get an awkward ship with a rep and hp bonus which is weird
Or just an hp bonus which is not that strong by itself
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1599 - 2013-08-18 22:33:20 UTC
to be fair the eos and astarte can be fitted with a 160k ehp buffer and a good active tank without spending much money. they're not exactly weak.

as mentioned, it's all a matter of tradeoffs.

as they stand, for the purpose they serve, they seem ok. tbh

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1600 - 2013-08-19 01:08:41 UTC
Trying to make sense of 80 pages of ranting: so, what are Absolution and Damnation's new starts again?