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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#861 - 2013-08-06 14:27:22 UTC
how would people feel about having a 20% link strength bonus instead of the 15% proposed?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Roime
Yamagata Syndicate
Shadow Cartel
#862 - 2013-08-06 14:28:15 UTC
Yeah, one cap booster is always a gamble, but the NOS helps a bit. I regard kin/them as the highest threat on TQ these days, and 1360 hp/s tank against Barrage isn't actually crap either.

It's true that neither Astarte or Eos will not start working in blobs, which was probably one of the concerns that you refer to, but these changes do have a positive net effect for small gang use imo. T2 Brutix obviously shares all the drawbacks of it's big-sig, slowish blaster T1 BC brother, but Gallente can't have all the candy.

And currently we have most of the candy in EVE, Gallente OP -threads will start popping up this autumn.



.

Kane Fenris
NWP
#863 - 2013-08-06 14:32:07 UTC
Roime wrote:
Yeah, one cap booster is always a gamble, but the NOS helps a bit. I regard kin/them as the highest threat on TQ these days, and 1360 hp/s tank against Barrage isn't actually crap either.

It's true that neither Astarte or Eos will not start working in blobs, which was probably one of the concerns that you refer to, but these changes do have a positive net effect for small gang use imo. T2 Brutix obviously shares all the drawbacks of it's big-sig, slowish blaster T1 BC brother, but Gallente can't have all the candy.

And currently we have most of the candy in EVE, Gallente OP -threads will start popping up this autumn.






finally somebody who isn't stuck in the now century old winmatar mentality

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#864 - 2013-08-06 14:35:10 UTC
Kane Fenris wrote:
Roime wrote:
Yeah, one cap booster is always a gamble, but the NOS helps a bit. I regard kin/them as the highest threat on TQ these days, and 1360 hp/s tank against Barrage isn't actually crap either.

It's true that neither Astarte or Eos will not start working in blobs, which was probably one of the concerns that you refer to, but these changes do have a positive net effect for small gang use imo. T2 Brutix obviously shares all the drawbacks of it's big-sig, slowish blaster T1 BC brother, but Gallente can't have all the candy.

And currently we have most of the candy in EVE, Gallente OP -threads will start popping up this autumn.






finally somebody who isn't stuck in the now century old winmatar mentality



although that being said minmatar still have the best T2 resists and quantity of resists to boot

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

FleetAdmiralHarper
Kitchen Sink Kapitals
#865 - 2013-08-06 16:40:17 UTC
i just really really dont like this update... ******* over command ships damage is NOT something that needs to be done.

dont touch my nighthawk
or ill cut you..

i will allow you to give it more resists and +100 pg though.
Siresa Talesi
Doomheim
#866 - 2013-08-06 16:44:27 UTC
Balzac Legazou wrote:
Looking only at the defensive bonus type, I think most people would feel happier with something like this:

Gallente field command: +% to armor repairer amount
Gallente fleet command: +% to armor resists

Amarr field command: +% to armor repairer speed (cycle reduction)
Amarr fleet command: +% to armor resists

Minmatar field command: +% to shield booster amount
Minmatar fleet command: +% to shield resists

Caldari field command: +% to shield base regen
Caldari fleet command: +% to shield resists

The actual percentages would need to be fine-tuned, and the field command defensive bonuses could move around (ex., maybe give more shield regen to Minmatar and better shield boosting to Caldari, or replace the base shield regen bonus with a shield booster cycle duration, etc.), but the general idea is:

Field command ships: better bonus for small gangs (local repair, self-reliant)
Fleet command ships: better bonus for fleets (resists, rely on remote reps)


Makes sense to me. This way there is diversity between the races and distinctive roles for both field and fleet command ships, instead of just blending them all together.

+1
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#867 - 2013-08-06 16:45:52 UTC
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
i just really really dont like this update... ******* over command ships damage is NOT something that needs to be done.

dont touch my nighthawk
or ill cut you..

i will allow you to give it more resists and +100 pg though.


And remove the 50% kinetic dmg bonus in favor of a 25% rof bonus, and move a low to a mid.

The ship on TQ sux, the ship proposed in this update sux.


I honestly think a 2 week old rifterling would have done a better job balancing the ship.
Ge Hucel-Ge
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#868 - 2013-08-06 16:57:29 UTC
you are really missing the role of command ships with this rebalance.

command ships should enable fleetcommanders to do their job. so they should be able to survive, be resistent to ewar and they shouldnt be the slowest ship in the fleet.

these 3 points would them make kind imba so they have to suffer in another area - and that would be dmg.


there are enough other ships out there to fill the role of the old field command ships.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#869 - 2013-08-06 17:17:18 UTC
I still want 8 highs (7 on Eos) so I can fit a full fledged fit along with 3 links, Eos can basically do it so why not the rest? PS, Nighthawk is absolute and complete garbage.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#870 - 2013-08-06 17:21:24 UTC
could these ships to split into two roles?
like the original ones

fleet command ships should be tankier by a lot
maybe give them shield/armor hp bonuses
field command ships should be faster and push out more dps/ more drones
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#871 - 2013-08-06 17:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Naomi Knight wrote:
could these ships to split into two roles?
like the original ones

fleet command ships should be tankier by a lot
maybe give them shield/armor hp bonuses
field command ships should be faster and push out more dps/ more drones


This is honestly the only reasonable way forward...

I still stand by the 2/2 (gank/tank) bonuses on "Fleets" and 3/1 (gank/tank) bonuses on "Fields". One of the tank bonuses on the fleets MUST be an hp bonus, there is no way we are going to see extensive usage beyond what's seen on TQ atm if we don't.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#872 - 2013-08-06 17:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
can we get away from the field / fleet roles please?
I'm sick of fleets being so poor that on one puts weapons on them and fields being like HAC versions of bc's..
Also the cargo amounts vary wildly please normalize it.

Vulture
- needs some proper dps its NOT a sniper

Damantion
- dps is still lame and is overtanky

Eos/Astarte
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately

Claymore
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately

Sleipnir
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately would like to see it become armour tanked as it will be a cane soon and could provide a armour link alternative as minnie are 50/50 armour shield tanked it makes more sense.

Nighthawk
- not too convincing claymore robs its best bonus .. seems to lack about 250 pg just for normal fit

Absolution
- looking better needs more tank like they all do .. besides damnation ofc

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#873 - 2013-08-06 17:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Harvey James wrote:
can we get away from the field / fleet roles please?
I'm sick of fleets being so poor that on one puts weapons on them and fields being like HAC versions of bc's..
Also the cargo amounts vary wildly please normalize it.

Vulture
- needs some proper dps its NOT a sniper

Damantion
- dps is still lame and is overtanky

Eos/Astarte
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately

Claymore
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately

Sleipnir
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately would like to see it become armour tanked as it will be a cane soon and could provide a armour link alternative as minnie are 50/50 armour shield tanked it makes more sense.

Nighthawk
- not too convincing claymore robs its best bonus .. seems to lack about 250 pg just for normal fit

Absolution
- looking better needs more tank like they all do .. besides damnation ofc



Yet again not understanding that you don't always fight 100 alphamaels... and how does the nighthawk need another 250 base pg? Do you fit your nighthawks with XL-ASBs?


Edit: Agree though that minmatar/gallente CS should have substantial cargo holds, as they are the ships carrying loads of cap boosters around. If flying a amarr/caldari CS, you very likely got capchains in your fleet.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#874 - 2013-08-06 18:00:14 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
can we get away from the field / fleet roles please?
I'm sick of fleets being so poor that on one puts weapons on them and fields being like HAC versions of bc's..
Also the cargo amounts vary wildly please normalize it.

Vulture
- needs some proper dps its NOT a sniper

Damantion
- dps is still lame and is overtanky

Eos/Astarte
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately

Claymore
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately

Sleipnir
- active reps on a fleet ship is pointless if it gets alpha-ed off the field immediately would like to see it become armour tanked as it will be a cane soon and could provide a armour link alternative as minnie are 50/50 armour shield tanked it makes more sense.

Nighthawk
- not too convincing claymore robs its best bonus .. seems to lack about 250 pg just for normal fit

Absolution
- looking better needs more tank like they all do .. besides damnation ofc



Yet again not understanding that you don't always fight 100 alphamaels... and how does the nighthawk need another 250 base pg? Do you fit your nighthawks with XL-ASBs?


Edit: Agree though that minmatar/gallente CS should have substantial cargo holds, as they are the ships carrying loads of cap boosters around. If flying a amarr/caldari CS, you very likely got capchains in your fleet.


a HAM nighthawk with 2 LSE's mwd and 2 links

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#875 - 2013-08-06 18:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
let's not forget that without getting jerked around you would feel like you've "won" eve.

what better way to keep you busy than to totally flip metas and SP sinks, while also leaving some things obviously broken lest there be nothing to fix next time.

I can appreciate this.

though I'm pretty sure the Nighthawk PG and mids is a troll, since they're gaining the link bonuses and a reason to fit 3 links, which would require an additional 330 PG, bringing the total in-line with the rest of the class at 1145 PG.

and I apologize Fozzie, for thinking you didn't know better than to give a Nighthawk 5 mids/5 lows... obvious troll ship is obvious.
Boss McNab
Tactical Chaos Corp
#876 - 2013-08-06 18:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Boss McNab
Can we have something other than a useless Hybrid tracking bonus on the Eos?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#877 - 2013-08-06 18:39:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
mm.. the Nighthawk does have 5 mids only how odd
Whilst im a fan of more variance between ships.. eg.vulture (what should be a blaster boat) has the same speed as the nighthawk ...
5 mids on a shield based CS is just plain silly or an oversight .. which suggests a lack of thoroughness on fozzies part.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Frothgar
Moosearmy
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#878 - 2013-08-06 18:51:26 UTC
I'm kinda worried about the lack of a damage application bonus on the abso.

Absolution retains the dated 10% cap usage


Damanation has 10% velocity

Nighthawk has 5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)

Vulture has 2x 10% Optimal

Astarte has 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff

Eos has: 7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone tracking and microwarp velocity (was drone bay bonus)
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking (was link bonus)

Sleip has: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

And Claymore has: 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile explosion velocity (was MPT tracking)


Basically every other ship gets similar damage boosts save the damnation and the eagle, and the abso has cap usage instead.

I'd prefer a small 7.5% optimal/level so as to help with damage application. As it stands the damnation is just a much more efficient damage projector and in most engagements would do more damage due to that fact alone (They're both bricks)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#879 - 2013-08-06 19:34:24 UTC
Frothgar wrote:
I'm kinda worried about the lack of a damage application bonus on the abso.

Absolution retains the dated 10% cap usage


Damanation has 10% velocity

Nighthawk has 5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)

Vulture has 2x 10% Optimal

Astarte has 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff

Eos has: 7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone tracking and microwarp velocity (was drone bay bonus)
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking (was link bonus)

Sleip has: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

And Claymore has: 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile explosion velocity (was MPT tracking)


Basically every other ship gets similar damage boosts save the damnation and the eagle, and the abso has cap usage instead.

I'd prefer a small 7.5% optimal/level so as to help with damage application. As it stands the damnation is just a much more efficient damage projector and in most engagements would do more damage due to that fact alone (They're both bricks)


mm.. i do think lasers are poor for brawling and need a buff on this as-well as the cap issues

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#880 - 2013-08-06 19:56:08 UTC
Lasers seem pretty fine imo. You're going to be mainly flying these in a gang, just sit back a little and enjoy the extra damage projection you get over blasters and autocannons.

I wouldn't want the laser bonuses on the Absolution changed unless they were going to give it a role bonus for cap usage... Tracking would be kinda nice to set it aside from the Legion / Zealot mind.