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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Valterra Craven
#701 - 2013-08-03 16:57:19 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:

neuts use very little cpu.
1200dps + dual neut astarte with a viable armour tank? seems good.


Pretty sure you have to do 3xmag stabs, or 2x mag stabs and 2x launchers to get that. Either way, a 4 or 3 slot armor tank is not known as a "viable" armor tank, especially on a Gallente command ship with a giant explosive hole and low ehp that is probably going to be primary anyway.


Yeah thats kinda what I was getting at, I wanted to see what he was deeming as "viable".
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#702 - 2013-08-03 17:01:44 UTC
I am not a violent person, an outlier in the EVE community. I don't enjoy PvP as it currently exists within EVE. However, if this suggestion were to ever happen to my Damnation:

Quote:

Race Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all tank resistances
10% bonus to sensor strenght

Command Ships skill bonuses:
10% bonus to all tank hitpoints
10% bonus to scan strength of probes

Fixed Bonus:
15% to the race defined warfare links


I will quit my job and hunt anyone down that supported that idea, making your explosions the reason for my existence.

Just saying.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#703 - 2013-08-03 17:04:07 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:


Yeah thats kinda what I was getting at, I wanted to see what he was deeming as "viable".


Aye, I figured as much Big smile
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#704 - 2013-08-03 18:58:49 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
I am not a violent person, an outlier in the EVE community. I don't enjoy PvP as it currently exists within EVE. However, if this suggestion were to ever happen to my Damnation:

Quote:

Race Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all tank resistances
10% bonus to sensor strenght

Command Ships skill bonuses:
10% bonus to all tank hitpoints
10% bonus to scan strength of probes

Fixed Bonus:
15% to the race defined warfare links


I will quit my job and hunt anyone down that supported that idea, making your explosions the reason for my existence.

Just saying.



Seems to be a pretty fitting bonus set for something called COMMAND ship, no?

Are you among the crowd that seems to spell command like this: SOLO ?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#705 - 2013-08-03 19:29:59 UTC
Wolf Ryski wrote:
I'll go ahead and throw my opinion out there. As far as I'm concerned all of these "you're ruining fleet ships" people can keep crying. as a solo/small gang pilot my initial reactions to these command ship changes were "HELL YEA BABY!" but after loading the new changes into EFT to start making beast fits...this is just utter crap.

http://i.imgur.com/lsS3OPC.png - Old Claymore

http://i.imgur.com/BcZlMx9.png - New Claymore that a change in t2 rigs can't even touch

give me my damn neuts back. The 490 dps is irrelevant and the tank/neuts more than made up for it. But now no amount of isk can make that fit work like it used to.

http://i.imgur.com/jp2EMvq.png - You seriously intended the fit to look like this? or worse? 2 powers and a cpu rig to make something work that worked before without even a fitting implant.

I'll take my SIGNIFICANTLY LESS DPS yet UNDENIABLY BETTER FITTING POTENTIAL old claymore over this ****. You turned the underdog into a gimped freak that thinks it can play with the big boys.

and I haven't even looked at the others yet.

I won't be looking for responses to this as I don't usually post on the forums, I just read the main topics and form my own opinions about what's new (which btw, again coming from a full time solo/small gang pilot, seriously thank you for the much needed buff to active tanks, much appreciated). just wanted to let you fine devs know what an amazing ship with great potential you screwed up.



... Battleship shield booster...? Medium cap booster, MWD, Battleship sized booster full rack of guns AND 2 medium neuts? I'd say it might have needed the nerf, considering you were fitting that with only one rig. Because it seems that you're building a solopwnmobile, and I don't see why it should be capable of all that without taking up some fitting mods.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#706 - 2013-08-03 19:55:04 UTC
One of two Gal boats needs an HP bonus, both with the armor rep bonus makes no sense. You eventually want to put these things on grid as an FC boat? Well if it can't survive then what's the point? Leave one for small gang work and make one for bigger fleets.
isqander
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#707 - 2013-08-03 19:57:56 UTC
Fozzie for president Big smile
Naoru Kozan
Perkone
Caldari State
#708 - 2013-08-03 20:08:59 UTC
Roime wrote:
On ships using weapons like heavy drones and blasters, local rep bonuses fit the bill. Gallente CSes are not meant for sov blobs.


+1

Not everyone wants to fly in a biggass blob and get vollied off the field.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#709 - 2013-08-03 20:14:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Naoru Kozan wrote:
Roime wrote:
On ships using weapons like heavy drones and blasters, local rep bonuses fit the bill. Gallente CSes are not meant for sov blobs.


+1

Not everyone wants to fly in a biggass blob and get vollied off the field.


Not everyone wants to fly ships that are only good for station games and high sec duels either...

This is exactly the reason why each race should have 1 Buffer brick for fleet work, and 1 active tanked ganker for solo/small gang...
Soon Shin
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#710 - 2013-08-03 20:20:29 UTC
A resistance bonus better 9/10 times than a active rep bonus for armor PERIOD.

I would take a 4% resist bonus over a 7.5% active armor rep bonus anyday.

Shield boost bonus works for minmatar due to ASB and mobility to avoid taking damage.
Anything For ISK
Doomheim
#711 - 2013-08-03 20:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Anything For ISK
Diivil wrote:

If you want to go totally crazy and have to have them be more useful and fun (or engaging) you could maybe introduce some module that is restricted to command ships only. The highslot target painter that was accidentally introduced to Sisi long time ago could be just the thing. Unique, "fun" as in something to do and useful.


Like:
Command Target Painter (for Minmatar)
Optimal Range: 60 km
Signature Radius Bonus: 300%

Command Warp Disruptor (for Gallente)
Optimal Range 60 km
Warp Scramble Strength 10

Command Energy Neutralizer (for Amarr)
Optimal Range 60 km
Energy neutralized 6000 GJ

Command ECM - Multispectral Jammer (for Caldari)
Optimal Range 60 km
Gravimetric Strength 24
LADAR StrengthLADAR Strength 24
Magnetometric StrengthMagnetometric Strength 24
RADAR StrengthRADAR Strength 24

Be able to fit +1 per skill level of command ship?
Activation times could be like, once per 60 seconds or something?
But NO DPS (remove their turrets and/or launchers)?
MrDiao
Fuxi Legion
Fraternity.
#712 - 2013-08-03 21:05:10 UTC  |  Edited by: MrDiao
Alsyth wrote:
Ok, so after some EFT testing, general thoughts:

Put the resistance bonus as a role bonus for all of them.
Just like HIC, that's the way to go to make the class balanced.



tbh, your suggestions are quite ****. The moment you change almost everything, you get incredibly high chance to introduce new problems, and you just made a classical bad example.

Though your thoughts are quite right.



S1dy wrote:


1. Damnation vs. Vulture

2. Active bonuses

I like the most of what you say.
But I also like the initial idea from ccp that making commander ships either capable for fleet or gang. Reintroduce "field","fleet" commander ship seems like a drawback.




1, If ccp fix the BROKEN fleet bonus mechanism, then we can have multiple commander ships in a wing to replace with, and then the need of survivability may not be that urgent.


2, I see lots of ppl mentioned "commander ship for solo", to my opinion this is just a stupid historical mistake. Commander ships are for commanders, either fleet or gang. The ships that designed for group pvp, like HIC, logi ,bomber, may be used for solo, but it should not be a feature that put into design consideration.
Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#713 - 2013-08-03 21:05:45 UTC
Naoru Kozan wrote:
Roime wrote:
On ships using weapons like heavy drones and blasters, local rep bonuses fit the bill. Gallente CSes are not meant for sov blobs.


+1

Not everyone wants to fly in a biggass blob and get vollied off the field.


Agreed. So have one for the small gang stuff and one for the big stuff. Having both skirmish/armor ships plugged into active rep reduces flexibility and is thus very sad. Its like the Brutix and the Mrym both having the same armor rep bonus...simply unnecessary.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#714 - 2013-08-03 22:45:46 UTC
It's interesting how these numbers actually are reflected in market data. Speculations aside, the hull making the biggest price-jump is the EOS atm.

Yeah, I already had a Claymore, multiple Damnations and Sleipnirs in my Hangar, however, considering the vector of change, apparently, the EOS is this expansions winner with the blight of information warfare moved over to Calamari.

So why didn't the Abso increae in price at all?

Maybe i's because it was **** before the patch and will remain **** after the patch. Probabaly, that's just because i can fly them at V for longer than most devs are around, I considered them to be **** before the patch and chuckle at them after it.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#715 - 2013-08-03 23:58:40 UTC
MrDiao wrote:
2, I see lots of ppl mentioned "commander ship for solo", to my opinion this is just a stupid historical mistake. Commander ships are for commanders, either fleet or gang. The ships that designed for group pvp, like HIC, logi ,bomber, may be used for solo, but it should not be a feature that put into design consideration.

well that's just, like, your opinion man
Eldrith Jhandar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#716 - 2013-08-04 01:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldrith Jhandar
Quote:
Eos:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints (was 5% MHT damage)
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone tracking and microwarp velocity (was drone bay bonus)
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking (was link bonus)

a turret tracking bonus for a drone CS with 4 guns? :S
seems a little silly, surely something better could be in there?
10% armor amount?
something for drones?
10% gun damage? <--op maybe?
and why not change the 7.5% armor rep to 10% like T3's ?
overall +1 for a usable eos =]
Com Evestess
The Wardens
Commonwealth Vanguard
#717 - 2013-08-04 01:48:46 UTC
I think the loss of PWG on the Damnation will not be effectively offset by the links losing PWG need. My running fit has a deficiency of ~50 PWG. Meaning I have to effectively make my ship lose tank to get a pg upgrade somewhere. For most ships/fits not a problem but I run with X-type mods. So making my ship easier to kill is not something I am overly willing to do.
I also see no point for the drones. It's a bait tank, not a drone boat. Besides that its a ranged warfare vessel. Two sentries simply won't be enough to offset all the negatives of this change.
Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#718 - 2013-08-04 03:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ong
heh things & stuff
FleetAdmiralHarper
Kitchen Sink Kapitals
#719 - 2013-08-04 03:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Eterne
*removed rant* - CCP Eterne
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#720 - 2013-08-04 04:41:08 UTC
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
Nighthawk:
Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonuses:

5% bonus to Heavy Assault Missile and Heavy Missile explosion radius (was explosion velocity)[/b]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
NOOOOOO just ******* NO, IT NEEDS TO BE EXPLOSION VELOCITY to counter the god ******* awful useless velocity of the t2 heavy missiles. t2 heavy missiles are so bad, because they cant apply any damage AT ALL, because of the nonexistent explosion velocity.. if you do this they will be EVEN WORSE. which is ******* unfathomable. as is they already do HALF the damage of t1 missiles to anything thats moving.. regardless of what the dps counter says.


Slot layout: 7 H, 5 M, 5 L , 2 turrets (+1), ----->5 Launchers (-1)<---- NOOOO its a ******* NIGHTHAWK NOT A VULTURE OR CRAPOX
you already raped heavy missiles to oblivion, DO NOT REMOVE MISSILE SLOTS. i threw a ******* fit when u removed them from the ferox. now that ship is useless. and so are hybrids on caldari vessles.


EVERY GOD DAMN TIME i get close to something fun ccp you either DESTROY it, or you move it another 3 months away.
like you did to my carrier, t2 cruisers, and nighthawk, and missile ferox.
your not going to get any more money out of me, **** YOU ALL I QUIT!!!

my plex runs out soon and ill never renew.
im so sick of getting totally jewed by you every time i find something fun to use.


its bad enough your raping the command modules too now.
i cant freaking take it anymore.
words can not even describe how pissed off i am. gahhh **** this game.
infact ill phucking delete my account if you do this in the update.

PS:who ever decided to do this to command ships needs to be ******* shot.

oh and ITS A BATTLECRUSIER NOT A CRUISER, NO 5 slot weapons bull crap.

Aaaawww does someone need a nap?