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Everyone in Highsec Should Be Easier to Gank

Author
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2011-10-27 13:43:18 UTC
Golar Crexis wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..


A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots!



:tinfoil:

In 0.0, we can eliminate bots, but highsec, though CONCORD, has made it problematic to eliminate bots en masse. The best solution to botting is making it easier to gank mission runner bots, the last safe bot.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

mavrick1
waistland prospecters
#22 - 2011-10-27 18:31:14 UTC
well in some cases yes that would be true but on other cases the person you are hunting is just one step ahead of you. so in all you can either find a easy target or you can spend all day going after one person

under the radar is where i fly i make my isk like very one

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2011-10-27 18:34:57 UTC
Exactly, and what's an easier target than a bot? The easier it is to gank, the less bots will survive.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2011-10-27 19:15:19 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..


A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots!

Yes, but let the null sec bots live in peace, after all, Goonswarm's job not to play police for CCP and Goons don't **** other Goons amirite?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-10-27 19:35:04 UTC
Dirk Decibel wrote:
Yes, but let the null sec bots live in peace, after all, Goonswarm's job not to play police for CCP and Goons don't **** other Goons amirite?

You know where the systems are. Bring ammo.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2011-10-27 19:49:54 UTC
Dirk Decibel wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..


A new player who is a bot is no player at all. Down with hisec bots!

Yes, but let the null sec bots live in peace, after all, Goonswarm's job not to play police for CCP and Goons don't **** other Goons amirite?


There are no goons who bot.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2011-10-27 19:52:04 UTC
Were there botting goons, they would have been destroyed long ago, much like gallente ice miner bots. Botters are weeded out in 0.0, so they flock to highsec. Suddenly, when we start murdering bots, we see an immense anti-goon hue and cry from "legitimate highsec players" on the forums.

Do the math yourself.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#28 - 2011-10-28 19:54:38 UTC
Weaseliors GIANT WALL OF TEXT crits you for 1,000,000

TLDR version:

"I want CCP to make high-sec ganking easier because I don't think high-sec is any fun! (add red herring about bots here)"

That is a specious and naive argument.

Some folks prefer a different play style. Not everyone wants to pvp. This is not to say they should be made perfectly safe...not as much fun if your results are guaranteed.

Isn't the point of nullsec to go there and do nullsec stuff? You aren't doing anyone any favors by trying to force your preferred style of play on them.

As sandbox game, Eve is a troll/griefer paradise because death has no serious consequences, and neither does losing a ship. It's not like gankers care much about standings when they can always roll an alt with better manners...:)

In fact I think we should add npc podkills in 1.0 sec which will add another cost element to peoples ganking plans.

People do stuff all the time in this game that if eve WAS real life, would result in lots of contracts to hunt them, their clones and their DNA down to be put out of commission permanently.

This isn't real life, it's a game, a business with customers. Customers like options and choices. Some want to mine and sell, some want to run around and shoot stuff.

We already have enough options to have fun at other peoples expense. There is no reason to add more...:P

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2011-10-30 06:16:30 UTC
Koby Botick wrote:
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..



No thank you, no World of Eve please. Especially not now since Blizzard is running its flagship into the ground with their latest batches of not really thought through changes. In fact, they are so scared about their (still immense but dropping) subscription numbers, that they just devised a clever scheme to bring people to commit to a 12 month subscription by giving their upcoming game for free if you commit yourself.

As for new players leaving or not taking on the game. It has less to do with what the game provides and so much to do that new players get pissed off by this craptastic UI that's an abomination unto itself. Not even 3$ steam games have such a bad, non configurable, buggy and badly designed UI. I'm constantly amazed that they haven't completely replaced it in all this time. Upcoming changing font is a very very small step. It needs to be burned down and buried and completely redone, with nothing taken over, but yeah, fat chance of that happening in the next 5 years. Alone out of the fact that this horrible horrible UI exists in pretty much this form with only minor interations since all this time tells me that new player gain is a very low priority at CCP. Whyever that is.

ok, i keep seeing people complaining about the UI, i never have trouble with it, so to help me understand:
what about it is supposedly "broken"?
what do you think should be done to fix it?

cause honestly, i see alot of people complaining, but i ahvent had any issues with UI so am a little confused as to exact reasons.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-10-30 06:19:07 UTC
Thredd Necro wrote:
Weaseliors GIANT WALL OF TEXT crits you for 1,000,000

TLDR version:

"I want CCP to make high-sec ganking easier because I don't think high-sec is any fun! (add red herring about bots here)"

That is a specious and naive argument.

Some folks prefer a different play style. Not everyone wants to pvp. This is not to say they should be made perfectly safe...not as much fun if your results are guaranteed.

Isn't the point of nullsec to go there and do nullsec stuff? You aren't doing anyone any favors by trying to force your preferred style of play on them.

As sandbox game, Eve is a troll/griefer paradise because death has no serious consequences, and neither does losing a ship. It's not like gankers care much about standings when they can always roll an alt with better manners...:)

In fact I think we should add npc podkills in 1.0 sec which will add another cost element to peoples ganking plans.

People do stuff all the time in this game that if eve WAS real life, would result in lots of contracts to hunt them, their clones and their DNA down to be put out of commission permanently.

This isn't real life, it's a game, a business with customers. Customers like options and choices. Some want to mine and sell, some want to run around and shoot stuff.

We already have enough options to have fun at other peoples expense. There is no reason to add more...:P

Problem #1 here, Capsuleers, like military special forces, are unspokenly above the law. upon theyre indoctriniation into capsuleer ranks, they are expected to do wahtever it takes through whatever means to achieve their goals, so much so that empires can't really do much to stop them, which is why CONCORD was formed to punish them, but concord themselves ahs no say with the empires so capsuleers will continue to clone.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-10-30 10:48:27 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
ok, i keep seeing people complaining about the UI, i never have trouble with it, so to help me understand:
what about it is supposedly "broken"?
what do you think should be done to fix it?

cause honestly, i see alot of people complaining, but i ahvent had any issues with UI so am a little confused as to exact reasons.

Have you ever setup a POS reaction farm? Reset that to a different reaction? Pulled it down?

Have you ever setup a PI farm? Reset that to a different reaction? Imported or exported anything?

It would be nice if we could see which order lines in the market were ours.

Have you tried starting 10+ invention, research, copying or manufacturing jobs in a go?

That's just what I can think of offhand, I'm sure there's tons of other places where the UI, while usable, is still not as usable as it could've been. A good UI isn't supposed to work against you, whereas EVE's UI does.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-10-30 15:31:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Thredd Necro
Nariya Kentaya wrote:

Problem #1 here, Capsuleers, like military special forces, are unspokenly above the law. upon theyre indoctriniation into capsuleer ranks, they are expected to do wahtever it takes through whatever means to achieve their goals, so much so that empires can't really do much to stop them, which is why CONCORD was formed to punish them, but concord themselves ahs no say with the empires so capsuleers will continue to clone.


Ginourmous wall of text incoming...

1.) Special Ops are usually not as above the law as movies and news make them out to be. Most of the good stuff civilians never hear about anyway unless it's very important for civilians to hear or it goes horribly wrong and the deploying nation or it's intended target speak of it.

2.) If there were rogue operators running around creating trouble the way people do in EVE they would likely compromise their identities and eventually be neutralized either by capture or termination. Plenty of other operators willing to take those jobs.

EVE has no fines, no incarceration and no execution. Fines, unless excessive, won't have any effect and even if we scaled fines with security level and number of offenses i'm still not sold that they would have any significant effect. The other two obviously won't work in an MMO.

How many sovereign nations on earth would allow a bunch of freaks to constantly fly around their airspace dogfighting with live weapons? How about flying in helicopters to loot walmart at gunpoint? (Hmm may have to reconsider the walmart thing...)

Do you really think a sovereign star nation would allow the same thing in their space?

Matilda: "Oh look bob it's those frisky capsuleers again, they blew up your mom."
Bob: "Was she insured?"

Not so much.

This isn't about utopia or a perfect world. Sovereign nations that can't keep their citizens mostly safe from pirates and military incursions by foreign powers won't be sovereign nations for very long.

"This is a pvp game so everyone should be forced to pvp." That's a laugh. Combat leads to PTSD, mental breakdowns and often death or dismemberment or disfigurement. Since these things don't exist in EVE and there aren't any true consequences people think they should have the right to inflict themselves upon others whenever and wherever they want, unlike real civilization where police, military and civilians would take greater exception to what they are doing and take steps to hunt them down and stop them...permanently.

Economic issues?...Pfft...anyone can do business in high, low or null sec if they so choose. Silly to even talk about this.

What all this high-sec nonsense really comes down to is:

1.) Starve them out of high-sec and into null-sec (lower mission and incursion rewards and make it less easy for players to do peaceful business in high-sec, cap POS stations etc.)

Let's force players to do things they don't want to do. Gold star to whomever thought of this.

Maybe you haven't noticed but MOST people LIKE doing peaceful business in relative safety and their money goes into the military machine that keeps them safe and HAS AN INCENTIVE to do so---control and more money to keep the military going.

Silly to have a game with sovereign star nations that won't/can't protect their tax paying citizens...Hello, McFly...

EVE isn't a bunch of gangs and pirate camps, it's a group of sovereign star nations with regular militaries and police forces. Frankly I don't think there is ENOUGH npc military response in some places. If people don't feel safe, they will likely move themselves and their money elsewhere...less taxes=less funds for the military.


2.) Drive them out of high-sec and into null-sec. (Allow easier ganking and piracy.)

Another gold star. Go see that part about sovereign nations. Did i mention lots of folks don't mind paying someone else to do that nasty military stuff while they peacefully make money? EVE was clearly designed to allow that to happen.

Why make peaceful economic pursuits available at all if the plan is to have the hearts of sovereign nations like a mad max movie where anytime anyone can stroll in, burn down someones house, shoot their dog and steal their car and the bad guys only loss will be the car they drove?

If you want the wild, wild west go make a wild, wild west game. Oh wait we have that in EVE: it's called null-sec.

Quit trying to turn high-sec into 24/7 WWII Britain, Mad Max, or the wild, wild west.

Matilda: "Oh look bob it's those frisky capsuleers again, they blew up your mom."
Bob: "Was she insured?"

Indeed.

Your sandbox has castles in it just like it would in real life and they are there to keep you from doing the one thing you want most: 24/7 piracy wherever you feel like it to force people to pvp when they might not want to...

It's not even slightly reasonable to ask for that.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams

Gheng Kondur
Serva Fidem
#33 - 2011-10-30 18:36:16 UTC
Love it, 100% support.

But of course on the condition that every non-bot who gets ganked gains a full refund from the Goons for all losses upon submission of a petition to CCP within 10 mins of the gank. Shouldn't cost you too much as they nearly all botters and as that is your target, you'll obviously have no problems with reparations to the few who aren't.

Or I have I just fed the troll.......

How about you carry on being goons and I carry on playing to avoid your gank fleets, as long as I can find a spare roid not being mined by a bot that has moved out of gal space that is.

Now back to the pretty lights, targets roid, hits button......




Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Hole Control
#34 - 2011-10-30 18:54:53 UTC
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
This is exactly why new players leave the game, instead of trying to pick on highsec carebears then perhaps CCP should make PVP more available. LIke battlegrounds, ladders etc.. More 0.0 NPC regions, etc. Seriously we need to start preserving the new players..


new player doesn't mine in hulk or mackinaw, he doesn't even know what ice is for

new player doesn't do level 4 missions, he doesn't have enough standings to get agent talk to him, and they're way too difficult for him to complete anyway.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2011-11-01 20:57:26 UTC
Gheng Kondur wrote:
Love it, 100% support.

But of course on the condition that every non-bot who gets ganked gains a full refund from the Goons for all losses upon submission of a petition to CCP within 10 mins of the gank. Shouldn't cost you too much as they nearly all botters and as that is your target, you'll obviously have no problems with reparations to the few who aren't.


Of course not; if CCP's methods were effective at telling who was or was not a bot we wouldn't be having nearly as much fun. Good ganking is like a CAPCHA: it is the turing test.

If you happen to be dumber than a bot, well, we've got other problems.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-11-05 21:40:33 UTC
Gheng Kondur wrote:
Love it, 100% support.

But of course on the condition that every non-bot who gets ganked gains a full refund from the Goons for all losses upon submission of a petition to CCP within 10 mins of the gank. Shouldn't cost you to io much as they nearly all botters and as that is your target, you'll obviously have no problems with reparations to the few who aren't.

Or I have I just fed the troll.......

How about you carry on being goons and I carry on playing to avoid your gank fleets, as long as I can find a spare roid not being mined by a bot that has moved out of gal space that is.

Now back to the pretty lights, targets roid, hits button......






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90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
The Revenant Order
#37 - 2011-11-08 16:51:52 UTC
There are wonderful anti-botting systems in place. They're called "Neutron Blasters." They work best when employed on the Thorax-class Cruiser or Brutix-class Battlecruiser.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Sephiroth Clone VII
Imperial Dreams
#38 - 2011-11-08 20:30:49 UTC
If it is all one damage type then unless it deals more damage omni tanking could be done just as effectively.

How do resists of omin tanking match up to dual damage type tanking? Or single damage tanking?

That would give a big boast to reducing the number of slots for tanking if NPCS deal only one damage type instead of two, current 'basic' system uses one large rep, and 2 of each specifics. Geting 3 of the same type of hardener may not do much help, so people may just use two.


And, even if they deal more damage, a person (correction bot) may omni tank still, and dual rep.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#39 - 2011-11-13 13:27:29 UTC
Is this dude a troll or what... oh what he is a Goon.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Jalmari Huitsikko
Avanto
Hole Control
#40 - 2011-11-19 11:13:30 UTC
Rumor says ccp is removing insurance from concord kills.

Basicly this means botting boost. Vast majority of low value suicide gank targets are botting mission runners, haulers or miners who fly in cheaply fit ships barely worth of ganking even with insurance.

For those real and dumb people flying in stupidly expensive ships or with stupidly expensive cargo this insurance change makes no difference they will be shot on sight anyhow.

So basicly what ccp is doing is not making pvp in hi sec more sensible. They want to make this game new WoW.